Ep 8 - Flesh And Bone - US

[Alan]

colonialone said:

Surely if Adama Sr WAS a Cylon, he'd have been affected by the radiation back at Ragnar just like the first Leoben was?

The radiation takes hours before the effects start to appear. Adama wasn't at Ragnar long enough.

Remember that Leoben had been at Ragnar for hours before the Galactica arrived, and was just starting to show effects. Two other known Cylons (Boomer and Aaron Doral) ended up at Ragnar as well, but they weren't there long enough to be substantially effected by the radiation.

However I don't think that Adama's a Cylon. Leoben was just lying to sow dissention within the colonial command structure.


"Divide, then conquer."

[Alan]

Chalcedony said:

We don't know what the cylons are made of. They can still be machines even if they're mostly biological. The final condition for definition of a living organism is the ability to reproduce. [...] I don't know if it's a historical blindspot - there's nothing that makes "life" and "machine" incommensurable. Living machines with biological components are still machines, not people.

You do love your semantics, don't you? I wasn't trying to make a formal argument regarding the meaning of "machine" or "alive". Rather, I was suggesting that if the colonials can torture and ultimately destroy a sentient, self-aware, intelligent (and even anthopomorphic!) creature under the justification that it's "just a machine", it might reveal a blind spot in their thinking about Cylons in general.

From the show it is clear that Cylons are intelligent, and it appears that they are spiritually aware. Regardless whether they can reproduce or not, would any of us feel comfortable about torturing one? Most people think that torturing animals is wrong. How "different" does your enemy need to be before torture seems reasonable?

If the colonials of fifty years ago felt the same way about Cylons as the current civilian and military commanders in the fleet, then the whole Cylon rebellion could have been totally righteous!

P.S. Since the Cylons have produced a variety of new models, available evidence seems to suggest that they can reproduce. It is not clear to me that a definition of "life" requires the ability to reproduce without assistance. There are species here on Earth that require outside help to reproduce.

[ernestborg9]

UlricK said:

Leoben's mission was to be discovered and to place suspicion among the colonial leadership.

That's why he was killed by Roslin. She doesn't believe the accusation, but it's in her memory and she will watch Adama. So Leoben's mission is partly successful.

If Adama is a Cylon, why did Ragnar-Leoben tried to kill him?

Do we know for sure that all humanoid Cylon models know each other? We only know for certain that the "Six", "Doral", "Conoy" and "Valerii" models know of one another

Regarding Inner-Six: This episode makes the case for her being a manifestation of Baltar's mental instability stronger. Her lines were almost exactly as if she was reproducing his thoughs. She should have recognized Boomer but didn't.

Not necessarily. Witness her first words as Boomer entered the lab: Look what the cat dragged in - said with the same level of disgust as has marked Cparica-Six's reactions to Caprica-Valerii.

On the surface, the comment could be taken to mean a distaste for Boomer at disturbing them - but in reality it goes much deeper. It could relate to a possible dislike Baltar has for Boomer as she effectively saved his life (a fact she points out a few minutes later) - BUT: he has been around her before - even had her sit-in on card games between himself and Starbuck, and has never shown any kind of dislike for her.

To me, it is very interesting that "Six" on Galactica demonstrates the same level of dislike / mistrust of Boomer as Six on Caprica has been demonstrating towards Valerii. Because of this, I've tended to start swinging back towards the view that "Six" in Baltar is something more than his own mental creation...

Interesting how we can all interpret the same scenes differently - a real demonstration of the power of the writing going into this series.

[ernestborg9]

Alan said:

P.S. Since the Cylons have produced a variety of new models, available evidence seems to suggest that they can reproduce. It is not clear to me that a definition of "life" requires the ability to reproduce without assistance. There are species here on Earth that require outside help to reproduce.

I've also moved away from the procreation theory as a motivating factor for the Cylons.

In watching "Flesh and Bone", I'm now fairly convinced that the defining issue surrounding Cylons is the question of Love - how it is defined, how it is understood, how it can be interpreted, what it means, physically and emotionally and spiritually to be loved and how love can be experienced - they are seeking a means to respond to "Gods love".

[Starbuck]

Another excellent and top marks for this episode.

[Blade Runner]

Starbuck said:

Another excellent and top marks for this episode.

How many top marks is that now then

[Starbuck]

Blade said:

How many top marks is that now then

Every episode I've watched so far. ;D

[Bizza]

Wow, what an episode! This series just keeps getting getter an better!

Roll on series 2

[Blade Runner]

The screencaps for this ep are now up on the main page

[metroid]

Man, I hope that have some viper/raider battle scenes soon! I'm itchin for some dog-fight action.

[ViperTech]

Simply... WOW! Leoben Conoy is my favorite toaster. He's like Plato...

[koenigrules]

So Say We All, Bizza! ;D
KR

[Silentwolfdog]

Man...half of time I felt sorry for Leobon then other half of time for Starbuck...looks like to me right at end Starbuck felt guilty about what happened. I was sort of surpised that she have a honor toward enemy right at the end.
I swear this show it was almost like Leobon was trying to tell humans something and to teach humans a lesson or something, otherwise he shouldnt have mention a happy ending when they find kobol and earth (from what it sounds like, or maybe not, for all we know Earth may be death trap which is mostly like not).

Boomer models look like they are starting to join on humans side or have some understanding toward em more than rest of other models. No wonder Six see something's wrong with Boomer models.

This show make me think a little...really a good show...

[ViperAce]

Another great episode. Roslin kind of surprised me there at the end when she had the toaster chucked out of an airlock. A bullet to the head would have been more merciful, but that’s just me.

[koenigrules]

Ah- but then she would not have actualized her vision at the beginning of the episode, remember!
KR