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Post by mjm800 on Jan 16, 2005 11:40:34 GMT -5
One of the questions from the Lowdown was will there be a gay character. Honestly, I couldn’t care less one way or the other; however, I think they could create an interesting episode on the subject.
The colonials appear to be very religious moreover, they need to start having babies. Every seed is now sacred and therefore, paramount to the creation of a healthy viable gene pool. Given the situation there could be a scenario were BSG deals with discrimination and the persecution of those not serving the preservation of humanity because of their sexual orientation. They could base it on religious grounds or the needs of society. They could contemplate the involuntary removal of eggs and sperm from homosexuals, or they could seek to exclude them from participating in the hopes to eradicate homosexuality altogether. They could be in a situation were they struggle to define marriage and of course, there would be those who take matters into their own hands through violence.
Moore says that wants a show that reflects our time, perhaps he can pull it off within the BSG universe.
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Post by MHall on Jan 16, 2005 12:35:26 GMT -5
That's a good idea.
In the early episodes, some pointed out that Lt. Gaeta acts suspiciously like a girl around Baltar, and seems overly eager to please Baltar. And then in episode 10 - I don't think this is a spoiler - Lt. Gaeta hugs Baltar. Everyone commented on the Roslin-Kara hug, but not the Gaeta-Baltar hug. I think Gaeta is gay, but he's barking up the wrong tree.
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Post by mjm800 on Jan 16, 2005 12:46:55 GMT -5
That's a good idea. In the early episodes, some pointed out that Lt. Gaeta acts suspiciously like a girl around Baltar, and seems overly eager to please Baltar. And then in episode 10 - I don't think this is a spoiler - Lt. Gaeta hugs Baltar. Everyone commented on the Roslin-Kara hug, but not the Gaeta-Baltar hug. I think Gaeta is gay, but he's barking up the wrong tree. I thought about that as well, however, I thought that maybe it was a case of hero worship for Lt. Gaeta. . I also think if they do such an episode that it needs to center on the irrational. Meaning science says that, 47,000 people is more than enough to form a society a few people not participating will not ruin the gene pool. Therefore, it needs to be center around intolerance and fear. In the US, the most blatantly homophobic attend church on a regular basis. The most religious among us are the most intolerant; however, they practice a religion that preaches inclusion and tolerance (as long as you think exactly as they do, of course)…go figure. |
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Post by Xenu on Jan 16, 2005 13:02:10 GMT -5
Boy, that is literally opening up a new can of worms, but I can't say it wouldn't make for interesting television... As to wether RDM would actually do it...well, who knows, but I think even if he did he'd have a hard time getting it on the air with those specific themes. Still, some intriguing insights. And a friend of mine mentioned something similar about Lt. Gaeta...but surely they wouldn't make him gay, if only to avoid the play-on-words...that'd be a little too in-your-face. ...not that there's anything wrong with that  |
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Post by Apollo on Jan 16, 2005 13:07:45 GMT -5
Hmmmm, maybe he isn't gay. I think he is only a big Fan of Baltar. In "Colonial Day" Gaeta danced with Boomer and I have the opinion that there could be a fight between gaeta and Tyrol about Boomer...
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Ioraptor
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Cylon Darwinist
Posts: 156
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Post by Ioraptor on Jan 16, 2005 18:50:32 GMT -5
Its strange to me how literally people have interpreted Rosylns sarcastic/ironic comment about "having babies" and Adamas and Tighs equally ironic/humorous side comments.... Do you really think that a free people like the Colonials would accept 'orders to reproduce' or that anyone would seriously conceive the idea of forcing breeding? They seem more like US citizens or Canadiens than Nazis or dictatorial communists. Those comments were dark humor to illustrate the reality that Adama, the military and the survivors had to face. They had lost the war, it was time to run and rebuild civilization somewhere else. Fighting was out, babies were in.... get it? People like having babies..... You generally dont find much resistance in a population to the idea of making more. I think about it every thirty seconds according to some popular magazines....  ....and there is more to society than making babies, you have to raise them also. Gays are good parents, learned that in my psychology and human sexuality classes.... There is a reason the genes survive. Gays are good for a society and thus good for the survival of the species. |
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Post by mjm800 on Jan 16, 2005 20:08:04 GMT -5
Its strange to me how literally people have interpreted Rosylns sarcastic/ironic comment about "having babies" and Adamas and Tighs equally ironic/humorous side comments.... Do you really think that a free people like the Colonials would accept 'orders to reproduce' or that anyone would seriously conceive the idea of forcing breeding? They seem more like US citizens or Canadiens than Nazis or dictatorial communists. Those comments were dark humor to illustrate the reality that Adama, the military and the survivors had to face. They had lost the war, it was time to run and rebuild civilization somewhere else. Fighting was out, babies were in.... get it? People like having babies..... You generally dont find much resistance in a population to the idea of making more. I think about it every thirty seconds according to some popular magazines.... ....and there is more to society than making babies, you have to raise them also. Gays are good parents, learned that in my psychology and human sexuality classes.... There is a reason the genes survive. Gays are good for a society and thus good for the survival of the species. You are talking about rational minded people and I am talking about the irrational minded. No one would argue that Adama or Roslin would force anyone to breed. I am talking about a group of religious extremist (much like the Cylons) who have decided what is right and what is wrong and they have decided that homosexuality has no place in the new order. There is a very real power vacuum on BSG and Roslin is in control only because Adama is a staunch ally. Any group with a large enough following could become a very influential force within the fleet, especially one proclaiming a new religion for the new age. While I understand the deeper meaning of Roslin’s statement, an extremist could twist them into providence and thus deem any who do not willing participate a heretic...get it? |
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Post by francisdouse on Jan 17, 2005 2:26:51 GMT -5
I think this thread should come to an end, someone could get offended or hurt. If someone is speaking from knowledge on the subject, fine, otherwise this is a can of worms and not really worth talking about.
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Ioraptor
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Post by Ioraptor on Jan 17, 2005 17:41:23 GMT -5
The purpose of a forum is discussion, the point of discussion in this thread centers around issues of reproduction rights, sexuality and what Ron Moore intends for this series. If you dont like the discussion you are free to look elsewhere. Nobody has attacked anyone else or purposefully offended another...... so I think this thread should continue as long as people express interest. Nor do we require doctorates to discuss our opinions on a bulletin board  From my perspective as a part time student of cultural anthropology I've come to the opinion that cultures who repress women or dictate reproductive rights are usually responding to environmental pressure. The customs, laws, and religious edicts which repress women are responses to a perceived threat to survival from the environment and/or competition with rivals. In agrarian and pre-industrial communities the strength of your community, its future success is measured by how many children you have, how many family members you can put to work or to fighting your neighbor. The problem is societies find it difficult to change when faced with new conditions. The cultural memes which evolved to satisfy the demands of harsher times no longer suit the needs of the industrial community. In fact they become counter-survival. The interesting thing about our fictional Colonials is they are culturally descended from a democratic culture. They have values we recognize...... Women have rights, more so than in many of the real worlds communities. But now they are under pressure from the environment, from enemies both without and within who seek their destruction. The question becomes how will they react to this pressure? Will older cultural memes reassert themselves? Are there the equivalent of fundamentalist islamics or christians waiting in the wings to assert ancient repressive ways? Will a new secular based control system evolve? Like the Chinese birth limits. Dogmatic and repressive but based on 'rational' principles? Will the Colonials slowly loose the values they treasure? Will they loose their humanity? |
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Ioraptor
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Post by Ioraptor on Jan 17, 2005 17:56:03 GMT -5
The other issue (and maybe the primary one in the threads originating post) is homosexuality.
If the fleet evolves a repressive culture based on ancient religious edicts originating in agrarian culture then they might criminalize gays.
If they choose a secular path that dictates reproductive rights they might ignore gays, modern studies reveal that gay people often parent (both in a biological and adoptive sense).
But I think we are talking long term here. Well beyond the scope of the series. We are talking about a cultural transformation that would occur over several decades and long after the issue of the Cylons was dealt with to conclusion or detente.
One should remember that they are still an industrial society. Dependent on a large technological infrastructure which they cannot ignore. Each and every member of the fleet is important to that end.
They cannot arbitrarily repress or imprison citizens without losing from the labor pool.
There are no throw-away people if you look at it that way.......even the prisoners onboard the barge have become valuable members of society.
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Post by ashoka1 on Jan 17, 2005 19:29:06 GMT -5
Actually, I just came from the Media Blvd. site.
There, it turned into a debate about Affirmitive Action.
Apparently alot of people there wouldn't get along with
Jesse Jackson.
Here people are discussing it seriously. The thread shouldn't be closed.
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Post by Wyvar on Jan 18, 2005 12:45:59 GMT -5
On Deep Space Nine they did a semi homosexual kiss (they had a "startrek" explanation as to why they kissed). Now imagine Lee and Crashdown having a 10 sec long kiss with lots of tounge action, not to likely to happen. I dont think the writers would dare do something like that. A storie about gay characters sure, but a kiss no. Only reason Jadzia and Lenara could have a sloppy kiss on screen was because guys watching it whent WOOHOOO! (me included  ) |
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Post by zinfab on Jan 18, 2005 17:58:35 GMT -5
Now imagine Lee and Crashdown having a 10 sec long kiss with lots of tounge action ... ... ... I'm sorry, what were you saying? |
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Post by zinfab on Jan 18, 2005 18:05:33 GMT -5
ok, my serious answer is that i'd rather watch a totally hetero-show than to see something shoe-horned into an episode to "make a point."
If they're going to do it, I'd rather them simply reveal it slowly and in the background. It could be a casual thing that might be mentioned at some point later, but preferably in passing. Since to me, it's NO BIG DEAL, I'd like to see a show treat it like it's NO BIG DEAL.
They don't say, "Hey! She's Asian-American!-- Not that there's anything WRONG with that... You know, nothing wrong with being ASIAN-AMERICAN!"
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ah-chie
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Post by ah-chie on Jan 18, 2005 19:18:16 GMT -5
... ... ... I'm sorry, what were you saying? LOL!! Well, actually I have seen Bamber lip-lock another guy on film (in his Cambridge Uni student film "Shifting Sands") and it was quite... interesting (he had such a cherub face back then). ;D Even saw the outtakes in the deleted scenes on the DVD I have (Poor Jamie was soooo pissed at the other frat-boys who were trying to crack up everyone during the takes - he was serious about his acting even back then). Bamber played an ex-boyfriend of the main character who had hidden his homosexuality from his college mates (and to complicate matters a girl who meets up with Bamber's character has a mad crush on him and is sorely disappointed to find out that he "bats for the other team").  I might as add - I agree completely with Zinfab - please don't just "shoe-horn" in a gay character, just to "make a point". If it does happen - let it be done just incidently as a natural occurance - not something with a big neon sign attached to it blarring - "SIGNIFICANT SOCIAL COMMENTARY!!!" Strangely enough, it would have more impact IMO if it were subtle rather than blatant. ;D |
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