Ep 11 - Colonial Day

[Spassvogel]

Hey, did anyone catch the line they stole from Patton? Tom Zarek says it :

"I shaved very close this morning in anticipation of getting smacked by you"

Cracked me up.

Spass

[finebone]

I liked this episode.
Not a lot of action but some interesting parts like :
- Ballthar's restroom-interview
- Who is responsible for killing the gun men ?
- And i liked the last scene with Helo and Valerii.

7 days till next episode

regards
finebone

[francisdouse]

All in all it was a good episode I think The Hand of God really spoilt us, that one left me having chest pains and a tingling arm. :-)

Plus it's good to see my childhood hero Rich Hatch again, I hope to see more of him. Which of course we will by that little look to Col. Tigh's wife at the end.

Only six days now finebone ;-)

By your command..

[ladyrheena]

francisdouse said:

Plus it's good to see my childhood hero Rich Hatch again, I hope to see more of him. Which of course we will by that little look to Col. Tigh's wife at the end.

SLAP ELLEN! SLAP HER! SOMEONE! QUICK! ;D

[Buzzvang]

Hi. New to the board. Dig the show. Next to Lost, it's the best thing going on Television. Or should I say will be

Anyway, though I really enjoyed the most recent Ep, I am surprised no one else has brought this up: If Baltar is now the Veep, then who's going to test the blood samples? Don't you guys think he's taking a little much on his plate?

And ernestborg9, I really enjoy your episode reviews, and given the amount of time and effort you spend on the critiquing the show, I find your opinion very respectable. Do you really think this one was more contrived than "You can't go home again?" I thought Ep.5 evoked insane amounts of eye-rolling, while the contrivances in this one were a bit easier to swallow.

[Crashdown]

Buzzvang said:

Anyway, though I really enjoyed the most recent Ep, I am surprised no one else has brought this up: If Baltar is now the Veep, then who's going to test the blood samples? Don't you guys think he's taking a little much on his plate?

I'd suggest that he might hand the duty over to Gaeta, but then we might find teh colonials actually get reliable results about who's a Cylon and who isn't and well, we can't have that, can we?

Oh, and welcome aboard

[ernestborg9]

Buzzvang said:

Hi. New to the board. Dig the show. Next to Lost, it's the second best thing going on Television. Or should I say will be

Welcome aboard!

Anyway, though I really enjoyed the most recent Ep, I am surprised no one else has brought this up: If Baltar is now the Veep, then who's going to test the blood samples? Don't you guys think he's taking a little much on his plate?

This did cross my mind, but there is no reason why others on the Galactica cannot be trained to handle the screening - and this would neatly get the writers around the BIG hole they opened up for themselves by having Baltar state all tests would turn up "green", no matter what the true result ("Secrets and Lies").

Baltar would probably be only too willing to hand over the chore on the grounds that a) it is mind-numblingly boring; b) it means he can hold his hand up and say to "God", "not me, gov, I didn't turn him(/her) in!" should the tests expose another Cylon among them.

As I've stated in my full review of this episode, what really surprises me is that Baltar so willingly accepted being nominated from Roslin. After her condemnation of him in "Six Degrees of Separation", it is hard to see him being so magnanimous as to accept so quickly. This is an instance where, for once, the "reset" button seems to have been pressed with regards to the Roslin / Baltar relationship. Not even Roslin's "Better the devil" comment to Adama suffices as an excuse for this.

Of course, Six may well have been the motivating force behind his acceptance - but this is hardly presented in the episode.

And ernestborg9, I really enjoy your episode reviews, and given the amount of time and effort you spend on the critiquing the show, I find your opinion very respectable. Do you really think this one was more contrived than "You can't go home again?" I thought Ep.5 evoked insane amounts of eye-rolling, while the contrivances in this one were a bit easier to swallow.

Thank you! It's appreciated!

While "You Can't" had some obvious contrivances (Thrace being able to so readily able to fly the Raider; the way in which she managed to pressurise the interior; the fact that she flew the ship into space without apparently activating any kind of internal heating system, etc.), the epsiode itself was more-or-less internally consistent.

However, within "Colonial Day" we have an episode that is internally inconsistent.

- Security is supposedly tight on "Cloud Nine", yet a brawl in a bar outside of the ballroom where the Quroum is being held goes on uninterrupted by any security force

- Lee Adama is deeply concerned about security, yet leaves Valance in what is clearly a make-do holding area when it would have been a simple task to ship him back to the far more secure Galactica and let others question him there.

- The idea that Zarek is behind the suspected assassination attempt makes absolutely no sense, and Lee Adama et al should have seen this:

a) If Roslin is assassinated at the Quorum (whether or not Zarek gets to be Veep) - suspicion is bound to fall on Zarek - either disqualifying him as a candidate, or paralysing his ability to ascend to the presidency.

b) If he is genuinely after the position of president, then as the VP, he would have every opportunity to build a track record as an effective politician, and thus stand as a highly competent alternative to Roslin in the elections in 6 months - so killing her again is hardly necessary.

c) If the aim was to simply create anarchy within the fleet (Roslin's death would probably lead to Adama trying to invoke martial law - something that probably wouldn't go down too well with many people) - then Zarek is a fool without vision.

- In one scene Lee Adama is worried that even with Valance in custody, Zarek will still try to have Roslin killed; in the next he's telling Starbuck Zarek doesn't need to make an attempt on Roslin, he can simply bide his time.

It all doesn't hang together as well as it should.

The biggest critique I have for "Colonial Day" is the manner in which it raised key issues about the function and structure of society within the fleet - issues that would by necessity have to be addressed - and then brushes them aside for what amounts to a hollow story of supposed political skulduggery.

[Daliden]

ernestborg9 said:

As I've stated in my full review of this episode, what really surprises me is that Baltar so willingly accepted being nominated from Roslin. After her condemnation of him in "Six Degrees of Separation", it is hard to see him being so magnanimous as to accept so quickly. This is an instance where, for once, the "reset" button seems to have been pressed with regards to the Roslin / Baltar relationship. Not even Roslin's "Better the devil" comment to Adama suffices as an excuse for this.

Well, Baltar had just had his first taste of what *some* power could get him -- he wasn't certainly going to turn down even *more* power!

And when it comes to Roslin, she's a playa. Cold as they come. Able to kiss Zerik when a photo opportunity presented itself. But there's not much love lost there.

However, within "Colonial Day" we have an episode that is internally inconsistent.

Let's see if I can fanwank these a bit

- Security is supposedly tight on "Cloud Nine", yet a brawl in a bar outside of the ballroom where the Quroum is being held goes on uninterrupted by any security force

They don't have *that* much security force available, and it's almost all set up at the perimeter and for guarding the VIPs. Besides, there were two security personnel, sort of, present at the bar

- Lee Adama is deeply concerned about security, yet leaves Valance in what is clearly a make-do holding area when it would have been a simple task to ship him back to the far more secure Galactica and let others question him there.

But could they have done that in secrecy? The whole thing was pretty iffy, and Apollo and Starbuck were pretty ready to rough him up only because of the gun. Well. It was pretty suspicious.

[UlricK]

- Security is supposedly tight on "Cloud Nine", yet a brawl in a bar outside of the ballroom where the Quroum is being held goes on uninterrupted by any security force

I agree with you that I found odd that security failed to appear.

- Lee Adama is deeply concerned about security, yet leaves Valance in what is clearly a make-do holding area when it would have been a simple task to ship him back to the far more secure Galactica and let others question him there.

I though that was a ploy to break Valance: He did make the treat of shipping him to Galactica´s brig, before Kara's retort about airlocks.

- The idea that Zarek is behind the suspected assassination attempt makes absolutely no sense, and Lee Adama et al should have seen this:

a) If Roslin is assassinated at the Quorum (whether or not Zarek gets to be Veep) - suspicion is bound to fall on Zarek - either disqualifying him as a candidate, or paralysing his ability to ascend to the presidency.

b) If he is genuinely after the position of president, then as the VP, he would have every opportunity to build a track record as an effective politician, and thus stand as a highly competent alternative to Roslin in the elections in 6 months - so killing her again is hardly necessary.

c) If the aim was to simply create anarchy within the fleet (Roslin's death would probably lead to Adama trying to invoke martial law - something that probably wouldn't go down too well with many people) - then Zarek is a fool without vision.

Zarek is an anarchyst. He was supposedly trying to bring forth somekind of pseudocommunist society.

Since Valance is a minor character: it's quite possibly that he was a cylon or under the employ of a cylon and Zarek is totally unaware of it.

- In one scene Lee Adama is worried that even with Valance in custody, Zarek will still try to have Roslin killed; in the next he's telling Starbuck Zarek doesn't need to make an attempt on Roslin, he can simply bide his time.

I took it as somebody who doesn't have his ideas very clear on the threat. It can be because he's not a security officer but a naval officer by training. He doesn't know how to focus the problem.

The biggest critique I have for "Colonial Day" is the manner in which it raised key issues about the function and structure of society within the fleet - issues that would by necessity have to be addressed - and then brushes them aside for what amounts to a hollow story of supposed political skulduggery.

I liked it. More than "You can't go home"

It gave us a small window in how is the survivors society trying to bring things back to normal. It's been 47 days after the attack, and they have nothing to do, nothing to clean. Although people mourn, in time they will look forward get on with their lives again. This episode was probably meant to show us that the society was going to be rebuilt.

An interesting note is that somehow, ships are becoming very much like city-states. If I remember clearly one of the representatives (the one who proposed Zarek) was complaining that Roslin never did anything for his ship. The Geminon Liner is somehow the new Geminon, etc.

[ladyrheena]

UlricK said:

An interesting note is that somehow, ships are becoming very much like city-states. If I remember clearly one of the representatives (the one who proposed Zarek) was complaining that Roslin never did anything for his ship. The Geminon Liner is somehow the new Geminon, etc.

I thought that too. It certainly adds an interesting dimension to the structure of the society. The Colonials are clearly going to be nomadic for a good while and yet the system of government they have is based around the needs and wishes of a civilisation based in a single place. Not that I'm a sociologist (or any kind of ologist) but that would suggest to me that some serious re-evaluation of the system needs to take place.

[Buzzvang]

ladyrheena said:

I thought that too. It certainly adds an interesting dimension to the structure of the society. The Colonials are clearly going to be nomadic for a good while and yet the system of government they have is based around the needs and wishes of a civilisation based in a single place. Not that I'm a sociologist (or any kind of ologist) but that would suggest to me that some serious re-evaluation of the system needs to take place.

But isn't that precisely what Zarek is suggesting? The fleet has the population of a town. A socialist or communist-like government would be much easier to manage within that parameter, alone. While I think his motives are anything but altruistic, his ideas are worth considering (i.e. how can you have an economy when your production capacity is severely limited?)

[ernestborg9]

Buzzvang said:

But isn't that precisely what Zarek is suggesting? The fleet has the population of a town. A socialist or communist-like government would be much easier to manage within that parameter, alone. While I think his motives are anything but altruistic, his ideas are worth considering (i.e. how can you have an economy when your production capacity is severely limited?)

Exactly, which is why I felt the idea needed more in the way of exploration.

To dismiss Zarek's actions as simply those of an anarchist is reducing the complexity of the character - which is why I don't agree with Urick's take on things. He's got the common sense to see that the society within the fleet needs to be re-ordered - and it can still put him at the top of the pecking order. Ergo, the whole Zarek-wants-Roslin-dead-as-soon-as-he-gets-to-be-Veep line doesn't habe together, for the reasons stated.

As stated, we're 47 days into the exodus. Adjustments have to be made. What we had here was the potential for a preliminary clash of ideologies that could have repercussions down through the series - especially with the elections due (probably in season two). Instead we got a very uneven storyline the misfired on several cylinders.

[ernestborg9]

Daliden said:

Well, Baltar had just had his first taste of what *some* power could get him -- he wasn't certainly going to turn down even *more* power!

He also has a monumental ego which took one hell of a beating from Roslin. It's doubtful "forgive and forget" is a phrase that is in his vocabulary.

And when it comes to Roslin, she's a playa. Cold as they come. Able to kiss Zerik when a photo opportunity presented itself. But there's not much love lost there.

True. but my issue isn't with Roslin. It's with Baltar.

They don't have *that* much security force available, and it's almost all set up at the perimeter and for guarding the VIPs. Besides, there were two security personnel, sort of, present at the bar

They have a contingent of *at least* 36 marines on Galactica, plus 2,000 other personnel on-ship. That should allow them to field a reasonable level of security around the ballroom, with the marines providing the appropriate level of expertise and discipline to the security teams.

But could they have done that in secrecy? The whole thing was pretty iffy, and Apollo and Starbuck were pretty ready to rough him up only because of the gun. Well. It was pretty suspicious.

Secrecy wasn't needed. They had a gun. They had a man with the gun who had Roslin's entire itinerary in his hands. Doesn't take a security expert to put these together and realise appropriate action needs to be taken, and get the guy off the ship so that a) he is no longer a threat; b) those better equipped to question him at length (i.e. without the distraction of trying to run the security operation on Cloud Nine) can get on and question him.

[ernestborg9]

UlricK said:

I though that was a ploy to break Valance: He did make the treat of shipping him to Galactica´s brig, before Kara's retort about airlocks.

Verbal threats aren't enough. They had the evidence; with or without his admission of guilt, the first act should have been to get him back to the Galactica where he could be properly questioned at length.

Zarek is an anarchyst. He was supposedly trying to bring forth somekind of pseudocommunist society.

Since Valance is a minor character: it's quite possibly that he was a cylon or under the employ of a cylon and Zarek is totally unaware of it.

So why kill Roslin, when he can achieve his ends through his own election?

And remember: anarchy is "a state of lawlessness and disorder (usually resulting from a failure of government) "

What possible benefits could Zarek reap by bringing this about - whether he is human or Cylon?

- For one thing, Adama is hardly likely to stand by and let it happen. He'll have Zarek killed first.
- Secondly, as a Cylon, reducing the fleet to an anarchic state would be running contrary to there goal of bringing the humans to Kobol.

As to your hint that Zarek is a Cylon, I've considered that as well (he uses simuilar phrases to those used by Six concerning human and "humanities children"), but I really hope he isn't because:

A) He has enormous potential as a recurring character in his own right; why cheapen that by making him a Cylon?
B) From what we've seen to date, he's also of the wrong age group, and given he's been in prison for 20+ years, it would mean the humano-Cylons have been around for a very long time, and would seem to run counter to what has been established.

I took it as somebody who doesn't have his ideas very clear on the threat. It can be because he's not a security officer but a naval officer by training. He doesn't know how to focus the problem.

In which case he should have sought the input of those better-experienced to assist him: members of the Galactica's marine detachment; the Master-at-Arms (OK - she was restricted to quarters for her over-zealousness in "Litmus", but Adama is hardly likely to leave her there should her experience be needed).

I liked it. More than "You can't go home"

Glad you did. I hae to admit, I found both of them weak, but as stated, the internal inconsistencies of this story (to me) made it the weaker of the two.

It gave us a small window in how is the survivors society trying to bring things back to normal. It's been 47 days after the attack, and they have nothing to do, nothing to clean. Although people mourn, in time they will look forward get on with their lives again. This episode was probably meant to show us that the society was going to be rebuilt.

A very small window! I'd have liked to have seen more. Maybe we will down the line....

An interesting note is that somehow, ships are becoming very much like city-states. If I remember clearly one of the representatives (the one who proposed Zarek) was complaining that Roslin never did anything for his ship. The Geminon Liner is somehow the new Geminon, etc.

He said Zarek got in first, before Roslin's office had responded. I woudln't take that to mean that she "did nothing", rather than she and her staff are being inundated with requests for help, assistance, supplies, etc., and they are very probably swamped.

Zarek simply took advantage of the situation. Doesn't mean he wouldn't have the same problems himself. He simply has the luxury to target his "assistance" in those areas he stands to gain leverage.

If anything, this is what makes him a threat to the fleet. Roslin and her people may not be on top of things (indeed - Wallace Gray is seemingly coming at things from the wrong direction, despite the good he's done. "Mission Statements" are hardly what is needed right now); but they are working for the benefit of the fleet as a whole, and would most likely demonstrate the greatest flexibility when responding to the need to restructure society within the fleet.

It is doubtful Zarek's motivations are that altruistic. His aim in helping the Geminon rep was a straightforward case of "I'll scratch you're back - but you'd damn well better scratch mine when I need it."

I guess at the end of the day, having weaned myself on a diet of 4 outstanding seasons of The West Wing (and one mediocre season (5)) any attempt at political intrigue has a lot to live up to!

[mjm800]

At first I thought that I would hate this episode as the beginning with the reporters seemed contrived. B5 tried some reporter (ISN Channel) episodes and they are all among my least favorite B5 episodes.

Then it got moving and the twists and turns of the political game began to appear and I absolutely loved it, right down to the cheesy music for Baltar's intro.

Anyway, I love the implications of blocking Zarek for VP whom Adama and Roslin view as a dangerous traitor and terrorist. Yet Baltar is the ultimate traitor/terrorist and exceedingly more dangerous. I cannot wait for more!