Rain

[Wyvar]

This is a complaint!

Well not really a complaint, just something i found odd.

And since i dont really have anything to back up my standpoint i post it here.

Anyway, a long time ago (about 2 years ago) when me and some friends sat down to watch The postman (i liked), one of my friends whent into a long explanation about why it wouldnt rain after a nuclear holocost.

It was a great explanation... but i forgot it 10 min into the movie...

Now, if it cant rain after a nuclear holocost why does it rain so much on Caprica?

Anyone care to poke a hole in this?

Or maybe give the reason why it cant rain if you know it (or know that it actualy can rain... whatever ).

From what i have seen on the mini series the bombing was pretty extensive, so i wont buy that it would need more bombs.

[Crashdown]

Okay, so science is like my worst of worst subjects (I did sociology at university), but from the basic principle of how rain works: sun heats water- water evaporates and rises- water condenses and forms clouds- clouds rain- water falls and so on and so on, surely, as long as there was water, there would be rain? Admittedly, a bad unpleasant rain.

That's based only on knowledge which we did in like infant school though ¬__¬. So, I guess there's more complicated principles at work involving words that I don't understand

[Wylden]

/*Wylden looks askance at the technobabble cap and then mutters 'what the hell!' */

It all depends heavily on the natural environment & weather of the planet in question.

Multiple large-scale thermal inversions that occur with air and ground bursts (think mushroom clouds) are enough to wreak havoc on the weather patterns of any system because they occur rapidly on such a large scale/ with such force -- interrupting the delicate balance of currents in the upper atmosphere.
Example: The US and USSR both monitored significant changes in the weather patterns that occurred local to the testing of the USSR Tsar class 50megaton bomb.

Thermal inversions of the magnitude and simple violence as those in question can also overturn large amounts of debris including water/steam (though the materia does mitigate some of the force/heat -- the difference is deemed negligible). What comes up, must come down. However, it all comes down at it's own speed. Water first... Certain particulate much later.

Now whether the weather/rain is in season, follows the 'correct' patterns, or makes sense by current models -- eh? That's a whole 'nother story. Rain and watershed is considered one of the most devastating movers of fallout in the weeks after a nuclear blast.

Because the weather patterns can be completely fraked on a global level: Inversions in oceans (another big weather player) can go off kilter causing storms on the coasts. Desertification can begin occur in once key temperate areas adding more dust to the particulate in the air. Fires add to the smoke particulate and also intensify the problem that leads to nuclear winter. But it takes a few months for serious nuclear winter to set in and for the planet to essentially go dead.

So yes, rain would likely happen for a while. Sunny days are potentially less likely. It isn't the initial bombing that kills the planet. It dies from its own death throes.

/* takes off technobabble cap and shudders violently */

Hope that helped. Dad used to teach the garbola to special forces.

[Chalcedony]

Wylden said:

/*Wylden looks askance at the technobabble cap and then mutters 'what the hell!' */

/* takes off technobabble cap and shudders violently */

THAT WAS SO COOL!



Info-tainment!

[Wyvar]

Wylden said:

/* takes off technobabble cap and shudders violently */

Hope that helped. Dad used to teach the garbola to special forces.

Ahh thanks for clearing that up!

Well i might have been completely wrong (ill blame that on my friend ;D)... but im still not happy with Caprica.

It feels more like its been abandoned then nuked.

[Wylden]

I have to agree with you on the lack of devastation point. After reading up on the damage reports after the Tsar testing, I would assume that we would see more damage. While I am fairly certain the cyclons would have used the larger bombs on larger population centers, the smaller bombs still leave some pretty nasty damage.

If the bomb that destroyed Caprica City (and yes it's a crater) was the bomb that destroyed Baltar's house (assumption -- the blinding flash in the mini about 18 seconds before), then at best, Helo and Boomer didn't land all that far from Caprica City (Blast radius approx 100km). Baltar would not have gotten that far away in a few hours on foot. I suspect that the city we see Helo and Boomer in is supposed to be close to Caprica City or possibly something else is afoot.

[Alan]

Wylden said:

If the bomb that destroyed Caprica City (and yes it's a crater) was the bomb that destroyed Baltar's house (assumption -- the blinding flash in the mini about 18 seconds before)

The bomb that destroyed Baltar's house definitely isn't the same bomb that destroyed Caprica City. We get to see the flash from both explosions (one on TV and one through Baltar's windows) and they happen nearly a minute apart.

Also consider the view through Baltar's window: a peaceful lake and lots of trees. Doesn't look anything like the shots we get of Caprica City, which is an urban scene dominated by skyscrapers. Baltar's house is definitely NOT close to Caprica City.

I suspect that the city we see Helo and Boomer in is supposed to be close to Caprica City

It's possible, but there's been no evidence presented either way. Given that Baltar's house was far enough away from Caprica City to be hit by a separate bomb - and that Helo and Boomer landed in a fairly unspoiled rural area - I lean towards believing that Helo and Boomer are not near Caprica City.

Perhaps a future episode will drop more hints!

[ladyrheena]

I was wondering about the lack of devastation, too. Then I found this about neutron bombs, which are (apparently) still classed as 'nukes' but:

www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=56794&tocid=0&query=neutron%20bomb&ct=
"Also called ENHANCED RADIATION WARHEAD, specialized type of small thermonuclear weapon that produces minimal blast and heat but which releases large amounts of lethal radiation. The neutron bomb delivers blast and heat effects that are confined to an area of only a few hundred yards in radius. But within a somewhat larger area it throws off a massive wave of neutron and gamma radiation, which can penetrate armour or several feet of earth. This radiation is extremely destructive to living tissue. Because of its short-range destructiveness and the absence of long-range effect, the neutron bomb would be highly effective against tank and infantry formations on the battlefield but would not endanger cities or other population centres only a few miles away."

Maybe the Cylons used one of those? I only have A level Physics to my name, but that might explain the flashes and stuff while the buildings still stand. Wylden, as resident expert on all things nuclear and destructive, what's your view?

[CaptAidy]

im with laydrheena on this one a Neutron bomb would simple remove the occupants of the City with little or no Residual radiation hence no nuclear winter

[Wylden]

I would ditto the isea of a neutron bomb if it had proven strategically feasible in our own timeline. And please forgive.. this may be a bit nyquil incoherent as I have the flu.

Most of the nuclear weapons we are used to are a fusion/fission combination. That is a fusion core with a fissionable material as it's surrounding casing. A neutron bomb doesn't have the surrounding casing so the only power/radiating material in the bomb is that of it's nuclear reaction.

When initially proposed by Cohen many moons ago, it was thought by some to be the ideal weapon, however it didn't actually make much of a splash until the 80's when Reagan gave okay for development and testing. It was hoped that the widescale use of neutron bombs would not lead to a scorched earth scenario/armageddon. Things didn't work out that well.

Development was tedious as old Dr. Cohen was not much use anymore. Many of this theories in developing the bomb had already been discredited. Eventually several countries developed testable warheads, a few were tested, and the whole concept was considered a wash.

What do we know about the neutron bomb?

We all know the purposed use as a landlord bomb. But It also had it's negatives. First, it had to be very low yeild. An uncontrolled fusion reaction of even a small scale could possibly lead to the same problem as a nuclear plant meltdown. (So much for no scorched earth) . Most neutron bombs were no more than a kiloton (=1000 pounds of TNT).

A neutron bomb is also a hydrogen bomb. Hydrogen is very prevalent in our atmosphere and we see a lot of it in water(3/4 of the planet). If detonated under the wrong circumstances it could effectively 'find' its fusion material readily and go into an uncontrolled reaction. A screwup in calculations could therefore lead again to the scorched earth scenario. Chances of this were of course incredibility low, but it was enough to give everyone developing it pause to think.

What would a neutron bomb do if detonated properly? Projected damage (crater style) would be approx a quarter of a mile in diameter. It would produce phenomenal heat and would carry the same type of outblast and inblast as a more conventional nuclear weapon. The only differences are the size and the type of radiation it was carrying. There was some testing done but as a result you would still have an impressive crater. The blast and fire damage resultant from the testing were much greater than originally calculated.

Another problem was the lack of killing effectiveness. The range of the bomb resulted in about a mile diameter killing zone. Those closest would be of course vapourized by heat, and the rest from the radiation, burns, smoke inhalation, etc. And it would be all togther messy. That was something TPTB wanted to avoid. those on the outer perimeter might take as long as 5-6 days to die and would potentially be able to mount a somewhat effective defense of a city.

Instead of having to wait the typical amount of time for the halflife of a uranium or plutonium casing scattered all over the site, theoretically one would only have to wait until the gamma and neutron radiation died down. Everything went according to plan in this regard except for a few minor details -- the neutron radiation didn't just dissipate, native materials were induced into fission(example shale roofing tiles), and there was still radioactive precipitate that could scatter for miles/days on the wind or in water. This being the case, it was predicted that most areas would still be uninhabitable due to the raising of ambient radiation to levels that might cause cancers, sterility, and mutations.

My vote would still be that the cyclons used non-nuclear/conventional weapons on some cities, if there is a point to this little experiment with Helo and Boomer, not that I think we will ever know what exactly that point is. The idea that even our government who is so quick to do the stupid thing backed away from this one really quickly gives me pause to think that perhaps neutron bombs aren't all they were cracked up to be.

I'm sure that was bloody incoherent... but just my thoughts.

[martok2112]

NOTE: I quickly scanned through this topic so if my post repeats anyone else's ideas...I sincerely apologize.

It is quite possible that in some cities, the Cylons may have used Neutron bombs. I am sure many of you have heard about such weapons....the kind that kill living things, but leave standing buildings intact and unharmed.

A great way to eliminate personnel and capture assets.

Respectfully,
Martok2112

[mjm800]

martok2112 said:

NOTE: I quickly scanned through this topic so if my post repeats anyone else's ideas...I sincerely apologize.

It is quite possible that in some cities, the Cylons may have used Neutron bombs. I am sure many of you have heard about such weapons....the kind that kill living things, but leave standing buildings intact and unharmed.

A great way to eliminate personnel and capture assets.

Respectfully,
Martok2112

It is very likely that the Cylons did use a combination of weapons; moreover, they would not need to bomb every city just the larger ones to cause the population to flee to the hills. Then the centurions are sent to the surface to relentlessly Search & Destroy.

[Blade Runner]

mjm800 said:

It is very likely that the Cylons did you a combination of weapons; moreover, they would not need to bomb every city just the larger ones to cause the population to flee to the hills. Then the centurions are sent to the surface to relentlessly Search & Destroy.

Were they on a search and destroy mission or are they trying to fathom emotions?

[mjm800]

Blade said:

Were they on a search and destroy mission or are they trying to fathom emotions?

The Centurions are I believe high-functioning killing machines and I think they are not very different from the models that they colonials fought in the first Cylon War. However, the human models they are a completely different animal altogether.

[ladyrheena]

Kind of the difference between the worker drones and the queen bees? Mind you, I hope they don't go for the hive consciousness thing again. That's just too Borgish for me.

Wonder what kind of intelligence levels the centurions DO possess...