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Post by Crashdown on Dec 6, 2004 18:50:38 GMT -5
Sorry if this has already been mentioned, or has happenned/been addressed previously and I'm being a total spazz and forgot. Anyway, when Boomer 2/Caprica!Boomer (is there an 'official' different name for her around here, to differentiate between the two) was running through the trees having flashbacks, we see Galactica!Boomer leaving Helo behind; a sure indication that Galactica!Boomer is transmitting her memories back to the Cylons, perhaps?
Or it could have been a slight oversight when the sequence was being put together, but that seems unlike the quality of the show that we have witnessed so far, so I'm willing to discount that notion.
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Post by Boomer on Dec 6, 2004 19:06:52 GMT -5
On a related note - did Six tell Sharon to stay where they were? and, if so, why did she decided to make a run for it? Maybe I have misunderstood something.
Is she worried about what Six will do to Helo if he doesn't want to settle down and play happy families? Presumably he won't want to. He seems very driven back to some sort of civilisation. I think it would take him longer than a month to give up and decide to stop trying to get off Caprica.
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Post by Crashdown on Dec 6, 2004 19:11:26 GMT -5
I could be way off-base, but I kinda had the impression that Boomer 2 was almost ready to come clean with him... or am I completely alone in that?
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ernestborg9
Ragtag, fugitive fleeter
Colonial Archivist
Posts: 171
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Post by ernestborg9 on Dec 6, 2004 19:12:55 GMT -5
On a related note - did Six tell Sharon to stay where they were? and, if so, why did she decided to make a run for it? Maybe I have misunderstood something. Doral gave the instruction - but there's been a twist. The idea was apparently to have Helo fall in love with Valerii on Caprica. Now the reverse appears to have happened - she's fallen in love with Helo, and is legging it with him in an attempt to "save him" (remember she has had a warning from both Doral and Six that if Helo doesn't stick with her, he's going to wind up dead). One might also assume that once the experiment has run its course, he might also be terminated... Or maybe even her falling for him has been anticipated within the Plan.... Good, innit!! |
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ernestborg9
Ragtag, fugitive fleeter
Colonial Archivist
Posts: 171
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Post by ernestborg9 on Dec 6, 2004 19:13:35 GMT -5
I could be way off-base, but I kinda had the impression that Boomer 2 was almost ready to come clean with him... or am I completely alone in that? Distinctly got that impression. she's in love *sigh* ;D |
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Post by Blade Runner on Dec 6, 2004 19:17:56 GMT -5
Caprica Boomer definately seems like she's running from the Cylons. (#6 "She's one of them")
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Spassvogel
Ragtag, fugitive fleeter
Renegade Zygon
"Baltar, I believe my sound sensor mishears you."
Posts: 138
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Post by Spassvogel on Dec 7, 2004 0:27:26 GMT -5
I'm starting to get a little Baltar fatigue. I mean, the guy gives in just way too easily to galatica-six's ministrations. I know a lot of you really like Baltar, but I think they're playing out his paranoia and fear *too* far. There has to be some reeling in, or really he's just pointless.
Spass
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Post by Helo on Dec 7, 2004 2:34:07 GMT -5
He has gone through alot with her and so far she really hasn't steered him wrong maybe he sees some good in her suggestions and goes with them for that reason.
It is very possible that she loves helo and was trying to keep him from the cylons, but remember they said were setting up a cabin for you 2 with all the comforts she has to get him there telling him cylons are coming and she taking the lead and then finding this place could only serve to strengthen his feelings for her. But I do agree something weird is going on with Boomer when asked if helo loved she said she "thinks" so which wasnt good enough for 6 - It seems for me at least "Cap-Boomer" and "Gal-Boomer" seem to be slowly trading places. I love it more BSG!!! ;D
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Post by Socialator_69 on Dec 7, 2004 3:09:52 GMT -5
What's going on on Caprica may have more to do with testing 'Boomer' than Helo.
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Post by jimmyrosso on Dec 7, 2004 3:32:29 GMT -5
Fanatastic Roslin and Starbuck episode! SPOILER ALERT!!!
- we get to see the really ruthless side of Roslin (she is a politician, so she tried the diplomatics/negotiated way, when she decided that was all she was gonna get, then get rid of the problem!) and her expression at the end with adama - top marks to her
- Starbucks ending with the kobol symbols, i thought very moving after all she did to the cylon
- the cylon itself brought forth images of contentment, aggression, sadness and in the end fear.
- A very engrossing episode which was well acted from everyone and never seen a SCIFI use this sort of work -a well deserved 5 stars from me
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Post by Xenu on Dec 7, 2004 4:45:50 GMT -5
I'm starting to get a little Baltar fatigue. I mean, the guy gives in just way too easily to galatica-six's ministrations. I know a lot of you really like Baltar, but I think they're playing out his paranoia and fear *too* far. There has to be some reeling in, or really he's just pointless. Spass Or he could be so subservient to her because she is his conscience; she doesn't really exist...."Litmus" didn't totally dissuade me from my theory on that. |
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Post by Helo on Dec 7, 2004 5:34:09 GMT -5
********SPOILERS AHOY********
GALACTICA 1.8 Lands In Blighty!! And We Have The Reviews!!
Brits have “Galactica” blah blah, all the reviews have been great blah blah, Americans don’t get it till Jan. 14 blah blah.
Here’s “LoneGunMan” on 1.8:
Another review for Galactica, and what an episode. Excellent stuff
again... we don't deserve such treats!!
Battlestar Galactica 1.8 FAQ
What’s it called?
"Flesh and Bone"
How does it begin?
The President is having a bizarre dream sequence that involves Leoben
Conoy, the Cylon they discovered on the station in the mini-series.
When she awakes, she is told that he has been discovered on board one
of the ships, the Geminon Traveller. He's captured, and the President
demands that someone questions him, someone who won't be easily
confused. Enter Starbuck, into the interrogation chamber to find the
location of the nuke he claims he's planted in the fleet. </font>
Torture and Interrogation this time?
You could say that. Every series has it, Babylon 5 even did it,
their attempt on psychological wordplay in a way similar to The Prisoner.
However, this is done far better than B5 ever did. Starbuck puts her
gameface on, knowing that the only way to make it crack is to torture
the Cylon into doubting its faith, and Leoben seems to know the future
of Starbuck, and the rest of the fleet.
So what else is going on then?
Boomer has plenty of airtime this episode, in two capacities. Boomer
v1 on Galactica is doubting her humanity. She is drawn to the Raider
(much to Tyrol's bemusement), and is so confused that she heads to see
Baltar and his Cylon detector. He runs a test on her, proving that
she's a Cylon, but Baltar wisely lies and tells her she's human. How
this will develop next week, I can't wait to find out... Meanwhile,
just as Boomer v1 is doubting her humanity, Boomer v2 on Caprica with
Helo is beginning to feel more human, going against her orders.
What happens?
Lots of psychological warfare. It's just damn good. Nothing else I
can say without blowing the punchline.
What's Good?
The questioning is harsh, violent and nasty, and Galactica proves it's
not one to pull its punches. Now that Baltar knows that Boomer's a
Cylon, it opens up a whole new level, and it seems that the Cylons on
Caprica wanted Helo and Boomer to settle down and possibly mate?
Interesting to see where they were going to take that...
What's Bad?
Not much really. Would have liked more philosophical debate... other
than that, damn cool again.
How does it end?
There was no bomb, Leoben was the weapon spreading lies and
conjecture. The President spaces him, but not before he's told
Starbuck that they will find Kobol, and it will lead them to Earth...
and tells the President that Adama is a Cylon. Okay, so we know he's
telling lies to get them confused and to start fighting amongst
themselves, but we know they'll find Kobol this season... so just what
is truth? Who can you trust?
“LoneGunMan¹s” rating for “Battlestar Galactica” 1.8?
****1/2
The Hercules T. Strong Rating System:
***** better than we deserve
**** better than most motion pictures
*** actually worth your valuable time
** as horrible as most stuff on TV
* makes you quietly pray for bulletins
Battlestar Galactica 1.8 FAQ
What's it called?
'Flesh and Bone'.
After the mediocre 1993 thriller starring Meg Ryan?
I'm relieved to say there are no obvious parallels.
What do those scurvy dogs at Sky One says happens this episode?
The crew hear that a nuclear warhead is poised to strike, although it takes some convincing them that the rumour is true
Is it accurate?
It somehow fails to capture the substance of the episode.
How would you sum it up then?
Starbuck interrogates a Cylon who claims to have planted said nuclear warhead somewhere on the fleet.
Another 9/11 parallel, huh?
yes. and apparently this is the Abu Ghraib episode.
Does the Cylon's interrogation reveal any interesting facts?
Sure. Apparently that BSG olde-timey religion is the Greek pantheon (Atermis and Athena, etc), whereas the Cylons are monotheists. Also, Cylons have a serious god complex.
Anything else happening?
BSG Boomer is back stroking the Cylon Raider.
Lucky Raider!
Indeed. Later on, a worried little Boomer pays a visit to Gaius to get herself tested for Cylon blood.
What about Caprica Boomer?
Apparently conflicted after the night of passion with her fellow crewmate down on Caprica.
What's good?
The interplay between Starbuck and the Cylon. The glimpses we get into the loony Cylon religion. The bits with Boomer. Gaius's handling of the test results ("It's very bright green!"). The President's resolution to the Cylon problem.
What's not so good?
The silly conclusion to Starbuck's story thread (why assign a pilot to interrogate a prisoner in the first place? do they even teach prisoner interrogation in flight school?). The episode works hard to balance our sympathies between the BSG and the poor tortured Cylon but you know what? Cylons planting nuclear bombs - not that sympathetic. The whole human/dehumanization thing should be interesting but here it just feels contrived.
How does it end?
Starbuck offers a prayer for the Cylon. The President and Adama have a wee sit-down.
“Wolf at the Door's” rating for “Battlestar Galactica” 1.8?
***
The Hercules T. Strong Rating System:
***** better than we deserve
**** better than most motion pictures
*** actually worth your valuable time
** as horrible as most stuff on TV
* makes you quietly pray for bulletins
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Post by Blade Runner on Dec 7, 2004 10:20:36 GMT -5
Review: An interrogation into humanity in Flesh and Blood.
BBC Cult:
Science fiction TV is usually regarded by the world at large as escapism, a bit of fun involving ray guns, explosions and silly clothes.
Certainly the old Battlestar Galactica fitted into this mold - but in this episode the new version shows itself far more interested in the big questions. When is torture allowable? What does it mean to be human?
A Cylon is discovered hiding in the fleet, and Starbuck is sent to interrogate him. Meanwhile, Boomer, determined to know, puts herself forward as the first test subject for Balthar's Cylon detector, while her copy starts to fall for Helo down on Capricia.
Clever cutting between the Capricia and interrogation scenes means we start out as repulsed by the Cylon spy as Starbuck. When she starts to torture him though, that identification with her suddenly becomes a problem.
Should we accept that such measures are acceptable, given the nature of the enemy and the number of people at stake? Or are we, by doing so, lessening our own humanity? As Number Six says, "In the scheme of things, we are as we do," - if we act like those we despise, are we really any better than them.
It's deep stuff, with clear real-life parallels to the treatment of terrorist suspects today. There's little escapism here, but it avoids the trap of worthiness by being so well written and directed that it grips you like a vice. Brilliant characterisation and acting means that you can't predict what the characters are going to do - but when they've done it, it feels exactly right.
In the end, Starbuck's interrogation is pointless - it achieves nothing for the safety of the fleet. But she learns a respect and an empathy for the Cylons that's perhaps more important than military secrets and plans - because it means she's retained her humanity.TEXT
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CCFC
Nugget
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Post by CCFC on Dec 7, 2004 13:14:56 GMT -5
The Cylon agent refers to Starbuck’s difficult home life with her mother. How did he know about this? 1. He psychic-unlikely 2. She confided to a military psychologist and all military records have fallen into Cylon hands-possible but unlikely. 3. The memory is implanted and is as real as boomer’s memory of her childhood on Troy.  |
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redspine
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Glows While Toasty
Posts: 132
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Post by redspine on Dec 7, 2004 13:43:22 GMT -5
Hello, new to the forum but loving the series in the UK. I think it is the best science fiction series I have seen. There are so many questions getting asked at the moment and I cant wait for the answers. This episode was gripping was despite the lack of many special effects. When they said starbuck would interogate the cylon I thought she would be too soft, but no way. And what about the president, wouldnt mess with her too much.
Are the cylons trying to mate with humans on caprica or is Sharon just trying to get closer to Helo, it seemed that she was keen to tell six it had been done. I dont think that Adama is a cylon, he would have already taken the chance to destroy the fleet.
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