So just how good is this Adama guy? *SPOILERS*

[nlinecomputers]

This stems from a conversation I was having with friends of mine.

In the mini Galactica is being mothballed and the impression is that Adama is going with it. This guy is only about 55 maybe 60. Not retirement age yet. But no one was congratulating him on his promotion or command of newer battlestar. That usually implies that he is being retired because the bosses are displeased with him.

I not sure that he is all that good a commander. He has had for sometime a drunkard as his second in command, he lets his officers have relations with enlisted men, he shows some nepotism with Starbuck, and when she is almost lost makes some really BAD military choices about the search for her. Security on the ship is out of control. etc. etc.

Is this guy really that bad or is this just bad luck?

Stands back, gets in asbestos underwear...

[Daliden]

Well, that's one of themes of the new BSG. It's not the Enterprise, which was crewed with the collection of the best and the brightest. It's not a ship that is top-of-the-line. It's crewed by humans (and a couple of cylons).

[nlinecomputers]

Exactly. The above was not a critism of the show but an observation. I like the realistic way that the show is handling characters.

[MHall]

Probably Adama was a hero in the first Cylon war, first as a fighter pilot, and perhaps towards the end of the war he was promoted to command the Galactica and played a role in the capitulation of the Cylons. This made both himself and the Galactica famous. After the war, he was given considerable leeway in his command, so Adama was able to resist all the attempts to upgrade the Galactica. After decades of this, Adama and the Galactica were relics of a bygone age, and a bit laughable. The Galactica crew was second rate, if that, and discipline was lax. A plan was hatched to turn this embarassing liability of a battlestar into an asset... a museum.

Basically, Adama was probably a top notch commander in his day, and still is... but he probably wasn't much respected by the modern battlestar commander "clique." And the crewmembers were there due to incompetence ("Um, like, all ships are accounted for, um, oh, like, ohmygod, I mean, one is missing!") or their own requests, sometimes from Cylons ("Dear Commander Adama, I have many good qualities that would suit me to a position on the Galactica. I am an excellent Raptor driver, and I have unmatchable endurance. I have just one medical condition (spinal infrareditis), and it will not affect my performance. Thank you for your consideration. Regards, Lt. Sharon Valerii.")

[Roadrunner]

I think Adama took a lot longer to achieve the rank of the commander than that. The first Cylon War has been over for 40 years. If he hasn't advanced in rank for 40 flipping years....!!! It's possible someone might be given command of a vessel at a rank lower than "commander", but I think this would be very unlikely on board a capital ship -- especially if at the time there were only 12 battlestars in the fleet. The big toys always go to the big dogs.

Besides, we've seen the photograph of a younger Husker, flight-helmet in hand, posing in front of his viper with his sons. Lee looks to be about 10 (?) in the picture, and he's now in his early 30's. So the picture had to have been taken roughly 20 years ago -- which would be approx. 20 years after the first war ended. That would mean Adama likely served as a viper pilot throughout the first Cylon war, and probably rose up through the ranks over the next 4 decades first as a squadron leader, then CAG, before graduating to the CIC.

[CylonGod]

Does anyone actually know Adamas age in the show? He may be near the retirement age. It also seemed to be the the Galactica (upto retirerment) was being used mostly for training and such and thus not so high level of upgrades and things.

[ladyrheena]

nlinecomputers said:

Stands back, gets in asbestos underwear...

Well, Mustex doesn't seem to have found this thread yet so I feel like I should burn you on his behalf, just with a small match you understand, and then once he gets here he can go at you with a blowtorch...HOW DARE YOU CRITICISE THE GREAT ADAMA!!!

Mind you, at the same time I can't help agreeing with you. The idea of all the 'new' COs in the Fleet sitting round a table somewhere in HQ with cigars chatting, and suddenly someone saying 'hey, did you hear about old crackpot Adama, he refused to have the software upgrades installed again' and the resulting laughter...that's a poignant image that I think might fit with the character's background. I also agree it's much better to have the Galactica and her crew being real people rather than the 'best and brightest' idea they often followed with Trek, it provides much more scope for interesting story arcs and let's face it, the more inherent flaws the characters the more we love them!

So I won't burn you after all. I'm not really the pyromaniac type anyway. But be careful. I'm watching you. Commander Adama is the BEST. ;D

[nlinecomputers]

The 40 years stuff has me scratching my head. None of the characters are really old enough to have fought in a war with the cylons if it ended 40 years ago. If it began 40 years ago and lasted 10 years then they could have. You get the impression that both Adama and Tigh are combat veterns. (Tigh remarks when the nuke is heading inbound how it had been awhile sense he had heard someone call INCOMMING.) Personally I treat this as one of the few goofs in an otherwise well done series. The mini had rough spots such as this one but the series itself doesn't have many slips.

[Daliden]

I believe Adama is in his sixties, which would peg him as a hot-headed 20-something during the first Cylon war.

Besides, they've surely seen action even after the Cylon war, amongst the different colonies. Not a peaceful sort, those colonists . . . come on, show me a period of 40 years on Earth with no wars

[Thedepressedcyclon]

nlinecomputers wrote:
I not sure that he is all that good a commander. He has had for sometime a drunkard as his second in command, he lets his officers have relations with enlisted men, he shows some nepotism with Starbuck, and when she is almost lost makes some really BAD military choices about the search for her. Security on the ship is out of control. etc. etc.

Is this guy really that bad or is this just bad luck?
__________________________________________________

Here's my two cents: Adama is and was a good commander, but... The Cylon attack caught him right as his ship was going to be decommissioned. He had no ammo, no nukes, and probably only half of his regular crew compliment. And for the last month or two, his ship was probably close to Caprica so that civilians could install the museum and cap off the landing bay.

So in otherwords, the military mission of the Galactica was over at least a couple months before the Cylon attack. Taking all those factors into account, Adama probably let discipline slip somewhat, he probably transferred out his best officers to new assignments, and regular maintenance was probably no longer performed as a cost cutting measure.

Adama's strengths:
1. He fought the networked computers. The strength of the Galactica was her "isolation." It was in essence another weapon. Adama knew that.
2. Under fire, he knew where the arms depot was located, had confidence in his navigator to plot a jump and guide the ship down the mouth of the gas giant
3. His crew seem very loyal to him.
4. He is able to protect the fleet, with half a crew, with his best officers long gone...in otherwords, he gets a lot out of his people.

Adama's weaknesses:
1. His is fiercely loyal to people. This is two edged sword. We will see how he handles Tigh and Kara

[prism700]

Thedepressedcyclon said:

nlinecomputers wrote:

Adama's strengths:
1. He fought the networked computers. The strength of the Galactica was her "isolation." It was in essence another weapon. Adama knew that.
2. Under fire, he knew where the arms depot was located, had confidence in his navigator to plot a jump and guide the ship down the mouth of the gas giant
3. His crew seem very loyal to him.
4. He is able to protect the fleet, with half a crew, with his best officers long gone...in otherwords, he gets a lot out of his people.

Adama's weaknesses:
1. His is fiercely loyal to people. This is two edged sword. We will see how he handles Tigh and Kara

Agreed. That's why i love the character so much. Adama is good at his job but he is far from perfect. Some of his decisions (like the one in ep5) are not rational but make him human like the rest of us. This is what sets the character apart from the likes of Picard (even though i liked Picard as well).

I too can't wait to see how he handles the different situations of Kara, Lee and Roslin.

I think Adama looks in his late 50s. I noticed in the miniseries Adama's hair appeared to have a lot more grey in it than in the series where is actually looked black. (pointless observations there )

[nlinecomputers]

I think you misunderstand. I don't blame Adama for the condition of the ship at the time of the attack. It was being decommissioned so yes it wouldn't have fresh supplies and things on the ship would have slipped behind on maintenance. Tigh and Kera were NOT just recent add ons to the ship. They both been with him awhile. And in most Navies plans for decommissioning occur years in advance. So I could see Galactica as being viewed as a less then ideal assignment. Not a place you put best and brightest but a place you put your problem personnel. I got the distinct impression from the mini that Adama was being forced out. And Navy doesn't do that to people that it thinks are good or great commanders. Perhaps Adama is/was a bit of a softy and his blind side attitude towards his men was noticed and not approved off.

[CrimsonCrystal]

Excellent points. The war started about 50 years ago. It ended 40 years ago (by which time we can assume Adama was in the top 1% of fighter aces).

The carreer path for a Battlestar Commander is probably much like the USN. They all have spent time in in a carrier airwing, they get their nuclear engineering training, usually serve as the chief engineer at some point, then XO, and then CO, alternating between shore tours.

Some Carrier CO's have had short pilot careers. Others spent upwards of 20 years in an airgroup, rising to CAG before moving onto other positions. My guess is that Adama was a career pilot for 15-20 years before he cycled through the various departments and divisions on a battlestar, eventually becoming a CO.

Colonial fleet probably knew the decomission date for Galactica 10 years in advance. Much like USS Enterprise CVN-65. The USN decided by the year 2000 that Enterprise would remain in service until 2013. During budget cuts or new iniatives to streamline operations, some carriers have left service a few years ahead of schedule.

By the time Galactica was decom'd, Colonial Fleet was probably stripping parts of the ship to service the slightly younger battlestars. Even among the USN super carriers, there exists part standardization. They almost all use the same catapults (and sometimes, parts are stripped to install on anothe carrier during major overhauls). They all have the same propeller design. I've heard some of the propellers from scrapped super carriers are still in use.

After being in the service for 30 years, most officers retire if they aren't promoted again or given a new assignment. That usually extends their career 3-5 years. Usually mandatory retirement hits at age 62, unless there is a special waiver or a war that requires his/her talents.

Tigh's comment about incoming in the mini - I don't think that was a goof. I suspect that the Colonial Government had a very nasty civil war that followed the armistice.

The first cylon war caused two significant things: a major population crash and a major resource crash (fewer people in the workforce, destroyed factories, mines, etc). This can lead to only onething: WAR. The history of humanity is littered with collapsed societies and civil wars following major population/resource crashes. In all likelihood, Adama and Tigh (if he's old enough) had to fight against other humans following the end of the cylon war.

There are only a handful of characters that survived the first war. Adama, Tigh (maybe too young to have fought?), Roslin, Elosha, Tom Zarek and a few others.

The big question is this: Was Adama in the "club"? Were there Admirals that looked out for him and helped him rise through the ranks? Why wasn't Adama getting promoted to Admiral? Was he over and done with the miltary?

nlinecomputers said:

The 40 years stuff has me scratching my head. None of the characters are really old enough to have fought in a war with the cylons if it ended 40 years ago. If it began 40 years ago and lasted 10 years then they could have. You get the impression that both Adama and Tigh are combat veterns. (Tigh remarks when the nuke is heading inbound how it had been awhile sense he had heard someone call INCOMMING.) Personally I treat this as one of the few goofs in an otherwise well done series. The mini had rough spots such as this one but the series itself doesn't have many slips.

[antelope]

Daliden said:

I believe Adama is in his sixties, which would peg him as a hot-headed 20-something during the first Cylon war.

Besides, they've surely seen action even after the Cylon war, amongst the different colonies. Not a peaceful sort, those colonists . . . come on, show me a period of 40 years on Earth with no wars

I think there is a real possibility that Adama never fought in the Cylon War based on his apparant age. Even if he did he would be a very junior officer at best.

From Colonel Tigh's remarks the last conflict was a long time ago. Whether cylon or human most of their lives have been in a peacetime military. Command of a capital ship late in your career in peacetime would be a very good career. Commander Adama is probably the equivalent of either a full Colonel (Captain) or 1-2 star General (Rear Admiral) in American Army (Navy) rank terms. This would be a very good career. Pick your oldest aircraft carrier in today's U.S. Navy. The commander of that vessel would have a similar position as BSG's Commander Adama. He may well have been its final "combat status" commander and was left in command during the decommisioning process.

If the colonial military was crewed like the U.S. I doubt anyone on board would have any real combat experience with no war in 40 years. 30 year careers are pretty much the limit unless you are a General or Admiral and even then very few ever go beyond 40 years.

Vietnam ended in 1973. 18 years later in 1991 I went to war during the Gulf War. In our battalion numbering about 500 men we had only three Vietnam veterans none of whom were officers. The equivalent of the Cylon War in time would be Korean War veterans. As far as I know not a single Korean War veteran served in the Army at that time.

[ladyrheena]

CrimsonCrystal said:

The big question is this: Was Adama in the "club"? Were there Admirals that looked out for him and helped him rise through the ranks? Why wasn't Adama getting promoted to Admiral? Was he over and done with the miltary?

Maybe at first, but by the time of the mini I don't think Adama had a lot of friends at HQ. Think about it- he refuses all the hardware/software upgrades on his ship, he has a drunk for an XO...I think the fleet were just humouring him by letting him keep command of the Galactica until they could pension him off. Yes, she's a big and famous ship, but they're making her into a MUSEUM. I get the impression that the general attitude of the 'new' fleet hierarchy towards Adama and indeed the Galactica herself is of tired, paranoid old fossils, relics from a long past and more suspicious age. Rather the way we in modern day Earth might look at some old war veteran who still thinks all Germans are Nazis, or some such thing.