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Post by Basestar on Jan 19, 2005 14:25:21 GMT -5
Three things
Isn't the montage at the beginning of the episode (with music over it) set in a different timeframe than the rest of the episode? That's often what montages do. So Kara and Baltar having sex there is three days before they meet again in the mess room. So it is the same dress, and she leaves his room the morning after the ball the night before?
The pics on Gateworld are out of order for 12 and 13. 13 has images from 12 in, so there are no deleted or expanded scenes. What you've seen are spoils for 13 in effect. I don't think the people putting the images up knew the order, so they guess and grouped them as seemed sensible.
Lee and Kara - I thought there was quite a bit of sexual tension between them. It seemed evident even in the mini with the picture of her, Zak and Lee. I don't know why, but I get the impression they were lovers in the past?
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ernestborg9
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Post by ernestborg9 on Jan 19, 2005 16:12:06 GMT -5
Three things Isn't the montage at the beginning of the episode (with music over it) set in a different timeframe than the rest of the episode? That's often what montages do. So Kara and Baltar having sex there is three days before they meet again in the mess room. So it is the same dress, and she leaves his room the morning after the ball the night before? There cculd be 24 hours between the teaser and the main acts; that would explain some of the discrepancies, and explain why helo's 50th day tag doesn't come up until we see him sheltering from the rain. The would put the time frame as: Early sequences of "Colonial Day" = Day 47 Colonial Day = Day 48 Kobol-1 Teaser = Day 49 Kobol-1 Acts = Day 50 (Day 1 being the Cylon attack). While I agree in part, this is not correct. The pictures for 12 clearly show Boomer, in her quarters, in uniform, UNWOUNDED, pointing a gun at Boxey. Given she shoots herself in the face mid-way through Part 1, these pictures MUST be from scenes considered for Part 1 Also, Kate Vernon's IMDB entry states she appears in Part 1, not Part 2. While I have nothing to support this, I get the impression that the images featuring Baltar, Starbuck and Six are from Part 1 - if only because Baltar is wearing the clothes he had on throughout the episode up until he joined the survey mission; as is Six. Certainly, if Adama is injured (as some have indicated to be the case elsewhere), then clearly this must occur in Part 2 Also, the images of Six in the white dress with Baltar seem to be from Part 13. I think they were attracted to one another, but she was in love with Zak and Lee wouldn't come between them. After Zak's death, Starbuck's guilt may well have caused her to keep her distance. Although grief may have brought them together - once, mutual grief / need, etc. |
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Post by The Godfather on Jan 19, 2005 16:19:40 GMT -5
I think the timeframe issue becomes crucial because it explains that which otherwise feels like an out of character action if indeed rather it was one directly following a great deal of inebriation( we see the table with Ambrosia bottle and the two glasses) and the "fury and fun" of the previous evening.
The other thing the alcohol and Colonial Day nightcap feeds into is that "same old Kara"...great deals of alcohol apparently don't do her any favors and make her do things a thinking person wouldn't do i.e hit on a Major sleep with a guy she plainly thinks is more than a bit weird.
-Shawn
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Post by MHall on Jan 19, 2005 17:28:59 GMT -5
LA LA LA! I can't hear you guys giving spoilers for episode 13. LA LA LA!
Back to episode 12. I once again have problem understanding some dialog, but this time I'm sure it's the show, not me or my speakers...
Boomer: But I'm afraid I'm going to hurt someone. I feel like I have to be stopped.
Six: She can't be stopped. She's a Cylon! You can't help her Gaius. But you could probably sleep with her. That's what you want, right?
Baltar: I'm not sure what eh ah ee.
Say what?
Other comments... I think people are sometimes misinterpreting Six's emotions. At the poker game, she is not disappointed because Baltar is acting arrogant. She is sickened, because Baltar is love-sick for Starbuck, as shown by his heavy drinking and other behavior. Before that, in the bedroom scene, after Starbuck leaves, Six is just in shock. I love that scene. It must be only just then, after Starbuck cries out "Lee, Lee," that Baltar realized he was in love with Starbuck, because otherwise Six would have known and ripped his heart out or something to keep him away from Starbuck.
It's interesting that Six is so upset by this that she is acting, what is the word, petulant about Baltar and Boomer. If she was thinking logically, she should want Baltar to sleep with Boomer. A threesome with 2 Cylon babes might make Baltar say, "Star-who?"
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Post by Basestar on Jan 19, 2005 18:19:13 GMT -5
Ernest
You're right - but I think the pictures are ordered a bit differently from when I visited in October and wrote a thread "predicting" all 13 episodes on Media Blvd. I got 12 and 13 utterly wrong because of the ordering then.
Yes, there are images in 12 that look like edits - Boxey, etc. Without spoiling 13, there are images of someone else being shot that certainly do belong in 13, and images of someone walking down the aisle of a theatre that are obviously part of the same sequence as shown in 13. Very irritating.
Most mystifying to me for months was the blue box Kara seemed to be holding out to Lee. Took a detailed viewing to see that it was the cap from her water bottle.
Oh well, we will know soon.
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Post by zinfab on Jan 19, 2005 18:48:34 GMT -5
Guys, some of us are actually actively avoiding references from even the second half of the two-parter. INCLUDING PICS. Please offset the "pictures" conversation with *spoil* tag. I've already accidently read more than I wanted about next week.
It was interesting to read that some people felt pretty betrayed by "the writers" for having Starbuck hook up with Baltar, especially after her outward "disgust" shown in other scenes. They said that it was simply "uncredible" or "unbelievable" to them at that moment. These people obviously haven't figured out how "to get laid." *pardon my gutter-tongue*
1. Acting disgusted and "unimpressed" is a good way to interest some people. People often hide their true intentions, and often a good way to judge how INTERESTED someone is in you is by how POORLY they act toward you initially. Sure, you'll attract a lot of arrogant jerks along the way, but if you're drunk and in the mood, and you've not gotten any since the world ended...
Geez, she should be cut some slack.
The grief that Adama gave her for that seem "intentionally muddied" by giving him a "valid" reason to be angry. He rolled from a weak "don't go above my head" argument into the personal daggers. That wasn't the voice "of a friend."
Starbuck OBVIOUSLY felt pretty revulsed about her hook-up with Baltar. I watched her coming into the poker game. She obviously was wary and just hoping that Baltar would "play it cool." I felt so bad for her when Baltar, as usual, dropped trow.
I found odd that the Vice President of the 12 colonies was still playing poker with "his old friends."
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Post by The Godfather on Jan 19, 2005 19:22:19 GMT -5
Betrayed? No...not unless I wanted a character who always makes wise decisions.
A large part of Starbuck's appeal is how damaged she is, what a "screw-up" she is and yet what a hero she remains...
As for Lee..well..same thing...friends aren't always nice and gentle and sometimes when they're also hurt, they say some pretty ugly things...the closer you are, the more capable you are of hurting...
-Shawn
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Post by Quickshot on Jan 20, 2005 0:14:52 GMT -5
I like how jealous Six became. Really added dimension to the character and also made her seem more human. Hmmmmm....and she said Boomer was the flawed model.  |
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Post by larocque6689 on Jan 20, 2005 0:54:13 GMT -5
"All of this has happened before and all of this will happen again."
--
"Madam president, what's going on?"
"It's real. The scriptures. The myths, the prophecies. They're all real."
"So say we all".
--
"Do you believe in the gods? If you believe in the gods, then you believe in the cycle of time, that we are all playing our parts in a story that is being told again and again and again throughout eternity... The scriptures tell us that a dying leader led humanity to the promised land. If you go back to Caprica and bring me the arrow [of Apollo] I will show us the way."
"This is crazy."
"You keep using that word. It is crazy, perhaps. That doesn't mean it isn't true. And it may be our only chance to find Earth."
This episode for me one of the benchmarks of the series, and the first inkling that they're starting to seriously explore the TOS mythos, namely Earth, Kobol, the scattering of the thirteen tribes of man, and the validity of ancient scriptures. Roslin's role as prophet is making me give her character an entirely new look. And the entire series.
Earth is real. Laura believes. She's the key. It's true.
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ernestborg9
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Post by ernestborg9 on Jan 20, 2005 4:47:42 GMT -5
I think the timeframe issue becomes crucial because it explains that which otherwise feels like an out of character action if indeed rather it was one directly following a great deal of inebriation( we see the table with Ambrosia bottle and the two glasses) and the "fury and fun" of the previous evening. The other thing the alcohol and Colonial Day nightcap feeds into is that "same old Kara"...great deals of alcohol apparently don't do her any favors and make her do things a thinking person wouldn't do i.e hit on a Major sleep with a guy she plainly thinks is more than a bit weird. -Shawn Absolutely. Considering I've been mapping the timeline through my reviews, this is a "Doh!" moment for me, as I should have realised the implcations of the glasses & dress sooner and put things in perspective, timeline-wise (i.e. approx. 24 hours between teaser and Act 1). |
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ernestborg9
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Post by ernestborg9 on Jan 20, 2005 5:03:39 GMT -5
It was interesting to read that some people felt pretty betrayed by "the writers" for having Starbuck hook up with Baltar, especially after her outward "disgust" shown in other scenes. They said that it was simply "uncredible" or "unbelievable" to them at that moment. These people obviously haven't figured out how "to get laid." *pardon my gutter-tongue* 1. Acting disgusted and "unimpressed" is a good way to interest some people. People often hide their true intentions, and often a good way to judge how INTERESTED someone is in you is by how POORLY they act toward you initially. Exsqueeze me??!! Starbuck having to *PRETEND* not to like someone in order to get laid??? Methinks you miunderstand Starbuck's nature. She is very evidently the kind of person not to stand on protocol - military or otherwise. If she is interested in a man, you can be damned sure she will make it plain to him. That's the beauty of her character (and her flaw). Everything is black and white to her, no shades of grey. Her dislike of Baltar is palpable. It's not a put-on. Her sleeping with him is simply down to being blasted following the Colonial Day celebrations, as Shawn has pointed out. You seem to be confusing things here. There are two confrontations between Lee Adama and Starbuck. The first very much has to do with his (confused) feelings / reaction to the realisation she's slept with Baltar. The second is directly to do with her mentioning to the XO that she has a plan to take out the basestar. This is where the comment about "going over my head" is made by Lee Adama. Lee's reaction in the latter incident is possibly fuelled by the fact he is feeling "betrayed" (or at least hurt) by Starbuck, but his annoyance is mollified by her outline of the plan, which as he states, might just work. No muddying of the water at all. Given the sequence of events, at the time of the game, he hadn't officially taken up his new duties. He's clearly morose over what happened in his cabin vis Starbuck ("Lee!") and is seeking solace through booze and gambling. |
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Daliden
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Post by Daliden on Jan 20, 2005 5:19:33 GMT -5
The gateworld pics show (DELETED) From the pictures it looks like (DELETED) This is EXACTLY the kind of fracking idiocy I complained about in the "Stealth spoilers" thread way back when. You, sir, are a thrice-damned idiot, and a jack-ass to boot. Fie! Fie, you hear? Edit: And the same goes for all you other frackheads whose posts I *did* manage to skip unread. |
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Daliden
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Post by Daliden on Jan 20, 2005 5:32:18 GMT -5
The would put the time frame as: Early sequences of "Colonial Day" = Day 47 Colonial Day = Day 48 Kobol-1 Teaser = Day 49 Kobol-1 Acts = Day 50 Deleted the rest without reading because I think I saw the word "pictures" in there. Anyway, the events of "Colonial Day" took more than 2 days -- when electing the Vice President was included on the agenda, Roslin left the floor open for nominations for *72 hours*. That's three days right there. Now, I don't remember if the Helo storyline's dates agree with the above. . . anybody who can remain spoiler-free care to comment? |
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Post by ernestborg9 on Jan 20, 2005 5:32:24 GMT -5
Boomer: But I'm afraid I'm going to hurt someone. I feel like I have to be stopped. Six: She can't be stopped. She's a Cylon! You can't help her Gaius. But you could probably sleep with her. That's what you want, right? Baltar: I'm not sure what eh ah ee. I took Baltar's comment to be the start of a response to Six's claim he wants to sleep with Boomer. He simply catches himself, as he realises he's addressing Six, not Boomer. The rest of his response (given to Boomer) is a deliberate attempt to confound Six. He's walked in on Boomer trying to top herself, and he tries to encourage her. Why? - Six had said Boomer has to follow her programming. - Six has also said that something pretty nasty is going to happen to / aboard Galactica & as a result Baltar has come to the conclusion "another Cylon agent" is about to be "activated" (conversation in the toilet on Colonial One- Baltar knows Boomer is a Cylon ("Flesh and Bone") & has most likely jumped to the conclusion that she is the "agent" who will be the cause of whatever is going to happen aboard the Galactica. Therefore, his "encouragement" for her to shoot herself is to confound the Cylons and Six.... Hence Six's look of total incomprehension when he does what he does. As to Boomer's comments at the start of the conversation, these clearly relate to the fact that she has recognised something is wrong with her following the events of "Water" (tanks being blown, finding explosives in her duffle bag; coming close to blowing up her own Raptor). Then there are her reactions to the Radier (remember her comment to Tyrol: "I'm a Cylon" - it wasn't meant as a joke or simply as a sarcastic barb; she was coming to the conclusion that she really is a Cylon. That she appearently "passed" Baltar's Cylon test has only confused her further. Originally, it would appear as if the scene at the top of this episode (her leaning against a bunk with the gun in her hand) *may* have been preceded with a scene of her pointing the gun at Boxey. If so, this would have made the "I'm afraid I'm going to hurt someone" blatantly obvious. As it turned out (correctly, I think), the writers opted to leave out the Boxey scene and let the audience infer the reasons for her comment based on the events we've witnessed through the season to date. Shock and hurt, I'd suggest. Look at Helfer's eyes in he bedroom scene after Starbuck has left. She is blinking rapidly as if Six is trying to avoid "tears". I don't think she was thinking in those terms at all. Her comment about Baltar wanting to sleep with Boomer was clearly derisive. She is "hurt" by what she witnessed in Baltar's quarters and she is demeaning his ability to help Boomer (or by extension, anyone else of the female form) by indicating the only thing he is capable of is bedding a woman (remember, in just 24 hours she's encouraged him to go to have sex with Playa Palacios on the Cloud Nine, and he followed that up by sleeping with Starbuck. Six is essentially saying, "You can't help her, Gaius. You're only good for bonking women." Hence (again), Baltar's reaction. in dealing with Boomer. As an aside, the whole thing with Six / Baltar is actually a very nice play on the motif of "You reap what you sow", which keeps occurring in the new Galactica: - In "Colonial Day", she gives him permission to have sex with whomever he likes (Playa Palacios initially). - Now she is reaping the harvest: he is besotted with Kara Thrace, and his heart clearly doesn't belong to Six. It's a nice turn on things (again). |
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redspine
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Post by redspine on Jan 20, 2005 5:37:59 GMT -5
I have done the above on these forums by accident, you know why because I did not realise, I am new to the boards and I am excited about talking about the show. I dont consider myself an idiot or any of the other names. If I wanted to be insulted I would go to another forum. I picked this one because its a friendly place. I would say it is more of a training issue. I find it as annoying to read insults and abuse as you probably do to read spoilers!
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