Ep 12 - Kobol's Last Gleaming pt 1

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I see what you are saying but my point was that unless the colonies were riddled with cylons the stats dont support option 1 being viable.

ie. number of cylons discovered so far on ships divided by number of humans left on ships multiplied by total number of original humans = lots of cylons on colonies to start with.

Maybe option 3.......here we go.

Some of the cylons wanted to re-enact the propecy to make them the true sons of mankind/gods. Other just wanted to wipe the humans out without complications. They went with the latter plan but some ships survived. They tried to wipe them out but after 33 the first plan came back to them. Tada...

[waerth]

Now this plan 3 I could totally see in what was shown sofar ..... . Thx for reacting btw it is always nice to have a friendly discussion!

W

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SPOILERS********* for last episode kobol part 2

Sorry I modified after you replied. It still doesnt explain why so many cylons (relative to survivors) are on the ship.




I also think that caprica boomer wont make it to the ship. I think she will die saving helo from six. She might even have to save starbuck from helo or vice versa as they will think each other are cylons. Anyway I reckon she will die trying. Or she will get to galactica and have a fight to the death with herself! Cool!!

BTW congrats ensign waerth, what happens next, I think its a rag tag whatsitsname at 100!

[MattLee]

Waerth,

Colonial one wasn't colonial one until halfway down the miniseries. You say they planned it from the getgo. Impossible as neither Roslin was president nor current colonial one was colonial one. Why not let Edar escape if you planned that. No way they could have predicted Roslin becoming president.

The Prez. and everyone between the Presidency and roslin were being tracked - the military network was subverted remember? easy to kill them. Doubly so if they are not in space at the time. The cylons clearly have some sort of influence over Roz. that they might not have had with Edar.

Re: Ragnarage

high simply plotted a course to the one closest by.

Then, again, it was predictable.

Why deliver a raider So the colonials get acces to their technology and can learn from it ...... nah!

So the Colonials can fetch the arrow and locate Earth. The cylons have nothing to fear from reverse engineering when they have 1000 times the fleets manufacturing capacity.

ref : vipers

something to do with computer code maybe, they only saw the vipers presumably not the galactica.

Vipers aren't FTL capable, the Galactica had to be close by (relatively speaking).

she would have needed years to scout that moon on foot.

Which is why they waited to see what direction she was going in and dropped the raider right in her lap.

Ref Boomer

Also do not forget Boomer is a weak model

boomers first attempt at sabotage was very successful and again, why didn't boomer set out to kill as many pilots as possible?

as for the nukes? well BG can survive the odd nuke, BG will protect Col. 1. The rest of the fleet are expendable for cylon purposes so long as enough ships survive to keep the fleet viable.

regards

[zinfab]

I'm not convinced that the original cylon goal was "to wipe out EVERY human." The reason is that they still seem to be able to do that whenever they want.

With two large basestars and all of those raider ships, why did they STOP the "33" attacks? Humans DO have their limits, so why not push them beyond those limits? It seems to me that the cylons could have killed off the rest of humanity any time they really wanted to do so... but they haven't.

why?

because "they have a plan."

I don't understand all of their plan yet, but it obviously involved SOME of the 12 colonies' survivors surviving. It may, as Waerth stated be to make certain they kill everyone on "Earth" too. Though, I'm not quite certain why they need humans to find it. They could easily take the Arrow to find it themselves.

[MHall]

With two large basestars and all of those raider ships, why did they STOP the "33" attacks?

The Cylons stopped attacking, because the Olympic Carrier missed a jump (or jumped but not to where the Colonials were), and presumably they needed tracking information from the Olympic Carrier in order to stay hot on the tail of the fleet. Now, it's just possible that the Olympic Carrier missed the jump not because of orders from the Cylons but because its agent or tracking device was discovered by some of the crew. Perhaps there was a struggle, like on flight 93. Mind you, I don't believe any of this. I believe the Cylons are keeping the Colonials alive intentionally. But one thing that happens when people are sleep-deprived is they get paranoid - maybe properly paranoid in this case. So, the Cylons could have been trying their hardest to kill everybody in "33", but could have been thwarted by some of the people on the Olympic Carrier.

[zinfab]

Well, I'd contend that the Olympic Carrier didn't have any tracking devices that aren't ALSO and ALREADY on nearly every ship in the fleet.

I'll buy that the cylons paused their attack when they got the opportunity to use the OC as a floating nuke. If their intent was simply the destruction of the human race, why didn't they continue their pursuit and attack after the OC was destroyed?

The only answer that has made sense to me so far is that they are TOYING with humanities' survivors. They want to watch and observe them in these situations. They don't WANT them all dead YET. Next question... WHY?

[MattLee]

Its funny you mentioned 33 because thats when I first suspected the cylons were yanking their chains. A convoy has to travel at the speed of its slowest ship and the fleet was waiting the longest possible time between jumps as they could get away with for repairs to be carried out, now as the persuers were warships they should have been much faster and easily able to run the fleet down.

On an unrelated topic how cool would it be if next series a squadron of vipers get in a fight with a group of raiders and get completely battered because the raiders are doing fast, short FTL jumps everytime a viper gets a bead on them? I think it would make for one seriously cool fight sequence and would also suggest that thusfar the colonial fleet has been coddled.

[ernestborg9]

shawngf said:

I would submit that Kara was clearly intoxicated by the remanants of the night after. It was the aftermath of the Colonial Day Ball(Kara's dress was on the floor) and thus I woud suggest more an issue of ambrosia making two people lose their inhabitations as opposed to Kara actually wanting to bed Baltar.

But this episode takes place three days after the events of "Colonial Day".....

As for Lee, I don't think that was disgust. At least I'd hope not. That much judegmental condescenion is a huge turnoff. And what I saw was more angry frustration with his friend-he's watching her make epically bad decisions and is helpless to stop her. But yeah I think we were also supposed to see a bit of jealousy. What that means is anyone's guess but I think it was definitely there.

Absolutely. Several times there has been sexual tension underpinning Lee / Starbuck confrontations; the jealousy is there, but so is the disappointment.

Actually the scene I think was more curious was the Starbuck/Baltar love scene and how for the majority of the scene, that was actually Apollo in the bed with her and NOT Baltar.

That she was imagining Lee Adama, indeed yes. Again, give a clear indication of the attraction that has been there.

[ernestborg9]

waerth said:

Well here it is post number 40 I am going for ensign now



Kof kof ..... it is Waerth ..... (probably only one on the whole internet, wherever you see one it is me

Apologies

plan B is simply annialate at earliest possible point using whatever possible means to herd the colonials to a place where the cylon fleet will be waiting ...,

Which they've already had the opportunity to do. In the "Hand of God", they took the one source of Tylium available, built a nice mine to extract it, set-up a refinery - and then left it open to attack by the Colonials without a single basestar covering it - and [i/more importantly[/i] had a force that outnumbered the Galactica's Vipers by some SEVEN to one (140 Raiders against 20 Vipers).

HAD they wanted to wipe out the Colonials, this was the ideal time. Stick (say) 3 basestars in the vicinity of the asteroid and have two go after the Galactica while the first takes out the fleet.

If not this, if the Cylons wanted the humans dead, they had the ideal opportunity here to deny the Galactica the majority of her Vipers. All they had to do was press home their attack - especially as Adama has a force of some 8 Vipers turn to face 130+ Raiders (allowing for losses in the initial engagement).

Instead, the Cylons apparently turned tail and ran.

Why? Because the Tylium mine was there for one reason only: to supply the Galactica and the fleet with enough, easily-accessible tylium ore so that they can reach Kobol - and travel beyond.

Again: if your theory is correct, the Cylons were out to destory the Galactica when they attacked her at Ragnar Anchorage.

THREE basestars couldn't take her out there, enough though Adama's manoeuvring / tactical options were limited to presenting the Galactica as a static target while she covered the out-jumping civilian ships.

Therefore, if the Cylons want to take out the fleet at Kobol, surely they'd have more than a single basestar on hand to do so.....

Since I've tended to go with the view that while the original aim of the Cylons was the destruction of the 12 colonies and humanity, but that something during the events of the mini caused them to re-evaluate their original aims, I'll let Matt answer your critique of his views

[The Godfather]

Perhaps it is supposed to take place three days after but she does pick up her green dress in the beginning...

-Shawn

[ernestborg9]

AgentK7 said:

The gateworld pics show a confrontation between Starbuck and Helo. Now those pics make more sense. There's no question it's Helo now (there was some debate about it possibly being Apollo).

From the pictures it looks like Helo is acting hostile towards Starbuck. Based on events this week with Caprica Boomer, he probably thinks Starbuck is a cylon as well. It's possible Helo spots the raider landing which would make it REALLY HARD for Starbuck to explain....

Fair 'nuff. I've been deliberately avoiding looking at the Gateworld pics ahead of recent episodes, as I found they were at times spoiling my enjoyment of the show and causing me to jump to the wrong conclusions.

That said, having just looked at the stills from "Kobol 1" over at Gateworld, there are a lot of shots of scenes that didn't make it into the ep (Kate Vernon reprising her role as Ellen Tigh); Boomer in uniform and pointing her gun at Boxey; Adama lying injured / wounded in CIC.; Lee Adama apparently under arrest...

Could it be that the stills with Boxey were from an expanded scene designed to give the audience a greater understanding of why Boomer wants to shoot herself (if so, it was a good decision to cut it out; the teaser works perfectly given our background knowledge).

Could some of these images possibly be from part 2 - such as the image of Adama wounded / injured in CIC?

[The Godfather]

Perhaps it is supposed to take place three days after but she does pick up her green dress in the beginning...

-Shawn

[ernestborg9]

waerth said:

Now if you argue that after episode 33 the cylons had a change of heart I would be able to see your point. That would absolutely be possible.

Waerth

NOPE - the Cylons had their change of heart BEFORE "33". Most likely some time around the end of the mini, or shortly thereafter.

The events of "33" was proof positive that the Cylons were not simply trying to destroy the fleet.

[ernestborg9]

shawngf said:

Perhaps it is supposed to take place three days after but she does pick up her green dress in the beginning...

-Shawn

I took this to be a towel on first viewing, but I take your point. Having just re-watched "Colonial Day" again, Starbuck is seen to be dancing with Baltar.....

And, looking at the timeline, I'd suggest that "Colonial Day" takes place over a 48-hour period. That still means "Kobol 1" comes around 24 hours after "Colonial Day" (working on the time references used for Helo's time on Caprica) - so someone in the writing dept may have screwed up the timeline. by a day.

Double hmmmmm