Ep 12 - Kobol's Last Gleaming pt 1

[EstoniaKat]

As many have noted, best episode yet.

I liked "33", and the "Hand of God" this season, as well as "Act of Penance". Suprising, what separated this one for me was the use of instrumental music, especially in the intro. Just outstanding use to develop the feel; I didn't dig the Scottish highland music so much in the Hand of God, which took away from my enjoyment.

Everything's coming together now. Probably the best nailbiter from beginning to the end.

The only thing I didn't buy, that no one has mentioned; the sexual tension between Apollo and Starbuck.

Where have we seen any sign of that before? Their relationship has been much more brother-sister than anything else; nothing we've seen so far has led us to believe that either of them is carrying some kind of torch for the other? Rivals, yes. Lovers, no.

It was a neat sceen between Starbuck and Baltar when Kara starts calling Lee's name. But Apollo chewing out Starbuck for fracking a civilian?

Come on. If you were in the military, you'd be giving your Lieutinant a high-five. I just didn't buy that part. Apollo having sexual feelings for Starbuck? What episode did I miss?

Now, Starbuck's jumping to Caprica chasing a "mythical" arrow, to use Cm. Adama's phrase. It's a big planet. Where's she going to find it?

When did Socinius make it out of the brig? Frackin' bad luck; covering for your bosses' indescritions, and then going down on a crashing Raptor.

Starbuck better bring Helo back, and Crashdown better survive. Note to Moore: Crashdown rocks. He better survive the season finale.

[LeeAdama]

oh my god next monday seems sooooo far away _ but what to do on mondays when its all over _ series two seems a long way away

this is the first time i have been happy to be a UK tv viewer instead of American!!

5 DAYS 18(ISH) HOURS TO GO................

[ernestborg9]

MattLee said:

well obviously or he would have just turned that bucket of water into wine or something ;D but if the cylons think they're instruments of god and there are this whole bunch of prophecies lying about they might have thought ' well right, as instruments of god we have to make them come true then'.

Which is a lot different to them "being God" as you orginally stated

Remember when they couldn't get the FTL on the raider to work then another raider turned up and obligingley gave them an extended demonstration of jumping about right where they could watch? handy that.

Here we agree.

[ernestborg9]

MattLee said:

Dorralls alleged target was Baltars lab.

While this is off the original topic of Matt's reply (to Wareth's claim the Cylons only want to totally annihilate the fleet),it's nice to see someone else voicing doubts about Doral's target.

There is actually no evidence presented in "Litmus" (or anywhere else) to support the conclusion that Baltar's lab was his intended destination.

Starbuck is the one who made the suggestion - to Baltar himself - but did she seriously believe what she was saying?

Or was it a barbed comment designed to put a stop to whatever horny ideas he was having (remembering he was busy crawing the curtains around her bed to give them "privacy")?

Call it the verbal equivalent of a bucket of cold water in the face.

The fact that Six then used it to her advantage also doesn't mean it was true.

[ernestborg9]

MHall said:

What do you mean Roslin and Billy? Did I miss a bedroom scene? All I remember is this part:

Billy: So, like, whassup?
Roslin: Not now, Billy.
Billy: Wha-tever!

Go back and watch the ep again . Roslin reveals her plan to Billy and he challenges her; that she will not be swayed clearly lessens his opinion of her.

[MattLee]

Which is a lot different to them "being God"

my mistake, I should have been clearer - he isn't God but he believes himself to be God - erroneously. He would thus try to act the way he thinks God should be acting.

Roll on next week. Does anyone know when the DVD is out? If its not till after the US run ends I'm going to be mighty pissed!

MHALL
Yes Baltar was on the raptor, he was quickly pushed to the back screaming like a two year old (can't blame him). His face was covered in blood so thats why you might have missed him.

[ernestborg9]

MattLee said:

my mistake, I should have been clearer - he isn't God but he believes himself to be God - erroneously. He would thus try to act the way he thinks God should be acting.

I still don't agree. He doesn''t see hismelf as God. If he did, why would he tell Starbuck her destiny is to "deliver my soul unto God."?

From the outset, he had a role to play, and he knew it: to deliver a message to Starbuck (Kobol) and a message to Roslin (Adama being a Cylon).

Everything else was metaphysical, not literal.

He simply means he is "God" in the sense that he is performing God's will.

Roll on next week. Does anyone know when the DVD is out? If its not till after the US run ends I'm going to be mighty pissed!

I think someone mentioned March.

The music from the mini is now available:

www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0001BS4SS/qid=1106101552/ref=pd_ka_2/026-5844692-1976418

[zinfab]

"Hand of God"
"We are all God"
"Instrument of God"
"Deliver me to God"

I think the hair of distinction you are splitting here is the same thing i've heard in every religious debate.

kudos to Moore for portraying this convincingly.

[ernestborg9]

EstoniaKat said:

As many have noted, best episode yet.

The only thing I didn't buy, that no one has mentioned; the sexual tension between Apollo and Starbuck.

Where have we seen any sign of that before? Their relationship has been much more brother-sister than anything else; nothing we've seen so far has led us to believe that either of them is carrying some kind of torch for the other? Rivals, yes. Lovers, no.

Hmmm....I disagree, It hasn't been overt, but it has been there; in looks, in non-verbal communications. Watch a lot of episodes where they stand toe-to-toe; the sexual tension is there, bubbling under the surface.

[quote[
It was a neat sceen between Starbuck and Baltar when Kara starts calling Lee's name. But Apollo chewing out Starbuck for fracking a civilian?

Actually, I would suggest Starbuck in bed with Baltar is the weak scene.

Sure, there was sexual tension between them the first time they played cards ("Water"); but over the weeks her disapproval of him has been all to clear:

In "Bastille Day" she is dismissive of him in public (when she and Boxey pass him en route to the ready room)

In "Litmus" he was clearly an unwelcome visitor at her beside when she was in sickbay; hence her naming him as a target for Doral's bomb - to get rid of him

In "Secrets and Lies/Tigh Me Up, Tight Me Down" she walks in on him while he's playing with himself.

None of these acts points to her begin a willing bedmate for Baltar. Indeed, given the last point, and Starbuck's overall neture, it's hard to accept she'd be willing to touch him with anything short of a 10-foot barge pole, unless she's suffered a HUGE loss of ego / self-esteem.

Come on. If you were in the military, you'd be giving your Lieutinant a high-five. I just didn't buy that part. Apollo having sexual feelings for Starbuck? What episode did I miss?

See above. There is also a lot of history that went into the scene as well; it's not just about Apollo "wanting" Starbuck. There's the "thing" with the major he mentioned. Lee's disgust, more than jealousy, seems to be the motivation behind his thoughts. Ergo, his reaction is understandable.

Now, Starbuck's jumping to Caprica chasing a "mythical" arrow, to use Cm. Adama's phrase. It's a big planet. Where's she going to find it?

In a museum.?

From the way Roslin is talking, it is probable that "Apollo's Arrow" is an artefact carried to the 12 Colonies during the exodus from Kobol or at least a reasonable facsimile thereof. Certainly to send a single individual to Caprica would suggest Roslin has a fair idea of where the arrow is to be found.

When did Socinius make it out of the brig? Frackin' bad luck; covering for your bosses' indescritions, and then going down on a crashing Raptor.

Shows the Galactica is too short-handed to keep qualified crew in the brig. Makes for potentially interesting situations for future episodes.

Starbuck better bring Helo back,

I would think this even less likely than Starbuck finding the arrow, or it's going to be one hell of a big coincidence:

- She doesn't know Helo is alive
- He doesn't know she's coming
- As you say, it's a hell of a big planet. Would be a HUGE stretch if she just happenes to arrive in the very place he is hiding.

One thing is more likely - Starbuck and a Six are going to get in a tangle, going on the pictures over at Gateworld!

[The Godfather]

I would submit that Kara was clearly intoxicated by the remanants of the night after. It was the aftermath of the Colonial Day Ball(Kara's dress was on the floor) and thus I woud suggest more an issue of ambrosia making two people lose their inhabitations as opposed to Kara actually wanting to bed Baltar.

As for Lee, I don't think that was disgust. At least I'd hope not. That much judegmental condescenion is a huge turnoff. And what I saw was more angry frustration with his friend-he's watching her make epically bad decisions and is helpless to stop her. But yeah I think we were also supposed to see a bit of jealousy. What that means is anyone's guess but I think it was definitely there.

Actually the scene I think was more curious was the Starbuck/Baltar love scene and how for the majority of the scene, that was actually Apollo in the bed with her and NOT Baltar.

Hmm.

-Shawn

[AgentK7]

The gateworld pics show a confrontation between Starbuck and Helo. Now those pics make more sense. There's no question it's Helo now (there was some debate about it possibly being Apollo).

From the pictures it looks like Helo is acting hostile towards Starbuck. Based on events this week with Caprica Boomer, he probably thinks Starbuck is a cylon as well. It's possible Helo spots the raider landing which would make it REALLY HARD for Starbuck to explain....

[MHall]

If you want to give spoilers for part 2, put a big fat SPOILERS sign at the top of your post. This thread should be for episode 12 and before.

[waerth]

Well here it is post number 40 I am going for ensign now

ernestborg9 said:

While this is off the original topic of Matt's reply (to Wareth's claim the Cylons only want to totally annihilate the fleet)

Kof kof ..... it is Waerth ..... (probably only one on the whole internet, wherever you see one it is me

Yes I still adhere to that claim as I like the KISS (Keep it Simple Stupid) principle a lot.

Cylon plan was very simple ........ destroy all colonists. They hadn't really thought there would be much of a resistance

Than ...... frack ...... they realised they fucked up so they came up with plan B. Which might/might not involve herding the colonists to earth. I still think plan B is not that though, I think plan B is simply annialate at earliest possible point using whatever possible means to herd the colonials to a place where the cylon fleet will be waiting ..., so they can finish their jobs. That is why imho they are using the prophecies to get them to Kobol.

MattLee said:

The Galactica was parked in a known location and has a distinctive appearance, Colonial one is a spaceliner of a known type travelling a line between the BG and Caprica, it has exterior markings to identify it. BG also had some kind of Cylon device onboard placed there by one of Roslyns staff, might there also have been one on Colonial 1? both ships have cylons onboard. The other ships of the fleet don't much matter.

Colonial one wasn't colonial one untill halfway down the miniseries. You say they planned it from the getgo. Impossible as neither Roslin was president nor current colonial one was colonial one. Why not let Edar escape if you planned that. No way they could have predicted Roslin becoming president. Also all of the fleet was "parked at known locations". Remember that Roslin under guidance of Doral did try to install a networked system on Galactica BEFORE the attack? They also knew that they would destroy all of Galacica's Mark VII's and they would have also known Galactica would have destroyed her ammo. No way they could have predicted Galactica would re-arm it's Mark II's. In the cylons mind Galactica was unarmed and harmless. See how they went for all "difficult" targets firstand after that mopped up what they considered non dangerous targets. Again KISS ...... the cylon plan fracked up as all plans do more or less on some points. They never calculated the Galactica being able to resist ..... so after it did resist they had to come up with plan B which is what you usually do when plan A fails.

MattLee said:

BG needs ammo, all other sources of ammo have been destroyed.

Nowhere in the mini did it say all other ammo dumps had been destroyed! Thigh simply plotted a course to the one closest by.

MattLee said:

They couldn't, had Starbuck died they would have tried some other way to deliver a raider and kept trying until they succeeded.

Why deliver a raider??? So the colonials get acces to their technology and can learn from it ...... nah!

MattLee said:

why did the raiders attack rather than fetch the entire cylon fleet?

Something to do with computer code maybe, they only saw the vipers presumably not the galactica.

MattLee said:

how did a raider with its brains shot out land successfully on the moon rather than pancake in?

No answer ......... writers ?

MattLee said:

If Starbuck heads off in a random direction on an unihabited moon what are the odds she will find a spaceworthy ship?

Almost zero she would have needed years to scout that moon on foot. Look at how much terrain the vipers could cover on the basis of the pictures they took. I think that was a bloody large moon. So they could have never planned that. This is all accidental, nothing planned. Just like in real life!

MattLee said:

Dorralls alleged target was Baltars lab. Why use Dorall for that when Boomer is in a much better position to do it. Dorall was supposed to fail. No matter what the target is Boomer, being one of the crew, would have a better chance of reaching it then Dorrall who is a civilan. Boomer was already risking being discovered by helping Dorrall so why not do the whole job?

Because he was spotted before he could actually get to wherever his target was. He would have never gotten any further. Also do not forget Boomer is a weak model so if I were the cylons I would not put all my eggs in the Boomer basket

Sigh and now back to wikipedia

Waerth

[redspine]

I think if you look at the stats it is quite telling.

Compare how may humans were killed on planets to how many are alive on the ships. If you then compare how many cylons we have seen on the ships it points to to one of two conclusions.

1. The population was infiltrated by a massive amount of cylons and the same percentage is on the ships and this is just by chance. They have regrouped with the intention of killing the humans off asap.

2. The cylons have engineered the attack so that ships that are left have cylons aboard with an objective in mind.

I personally have thought 2 for some time.

[waerth]

redspine said:

I think if you look at the stats it is quite telling.

2. The cylons have engineered the attack so that ships that are left have cylons aboard with an objective in mind.

I personally have thought 2 for some time.

As point 1 are my thoughts exactly ..... lets dig into point 2

/me sound of rummaging in a shed ....

ah found

/me comes out with a shovel .....

The only thing that I see in favour of you theory is ...... if you want to kill of all humans you also want the 13th tribe that went to earth.

But ......

There is an easier way to handle that .... traitors. No matter what rhe cylons have done, every society will have its collaborators. So all they had to do is screen the survivors for people willing to collaborate in exchange for survival. They would probably find quite a few willing. And have them search for earth under cylon guidance.

Now why I think point 2 is impossible.

1) How could the cylons have predicted all ships gathering around Galactica? Another one could have survived.

2)Why shoot nukes at it if you want it to survive. I mean you cannot really control rockets and let them not hit Galacica and its fleet. So why throw so much ordinance at her and the fleet. Part might hit the fleet and stop them right there. End of your plan

3)How would the cylons have predicted for there to be a new president?

Etc. etc.

Now if you argue that after episode 33 the cylons had a change of heart I would be able to see your point. That would absolutely be possible.

Waerth