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Post by ViperPilotMomma on Jan 31, 2005 10:09:49 GMT -5
Agreed! I think the flashback & flashforward thing made the whole episode a little bit hard to follow. I think it would have been easier to follow if they had just used flashbacks as parallels (as they did) to explain or give more depth to Starbuck's hang up with the viper pilot training. It was also well used during the funeral for the pilots killed in the hanger accident, again giving depth to Starbuck and Lee's perspective.
Maybe I'm not thinking this through enough, but I really don't get why they were peppering in the flashforwards of Starbuck careening through some planet's atmosphere obviously in distress. Nothing like being a 'punch-you-in-the-face' spoiler for your own episode!
Re: the photograph of the pilot watching a city burn to ruines.
This was brought up in an earlier thread. I don't remember the exact explanation so if anyone else reading this has a better explanation, please correct me if I'm wrong. I remember it being mentioned that the photo from the first Cylon war.
VPM
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Post by Dangermouse on Jan 31, 2005 11:16:04 GMT -5
Re: the photo. According to Moore's blog on scifi at blog.scifi.com/battlestar/archives/2005/01/index.html#000016The explanation is: "It's probably been asked before, but I'm curious as to whom is in the picture in the Viper Pilot's briefing room, facing away from the camera . . . the one the pilots, including Commander Adama, touch when they enter and leave? This is touching, and is a wonderful human element to the story. So who is it?" There was a scene cut from "33" where we saw Laura being given her copy of the photo along with a card that said it was taken on the roof of the capitol building on Aerilon during the attack. The photo was inspired by the famous shot of the fire-fighters raising the flag at Ground Zero that became iconic. I thought the Colonies would have their own version of this -- a snapshot taken in the moment that becomes a symbol of the day they can never forget and of all they had lost. The photo itself is of a soldier falling to his knees (possibly shot or simply overcome by emotion) as he stands on the rooftop over looking the devastation of his city, while the Colonial flag waves at the edge of frame. The inscription below the photo on Laura's plaque reads, "Lest We Forget" in itself a reference to the inscription on the watch presented to John Wayne's character in "She Wore a Yellow Ribbon." |
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Roner
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Teemocil Advocate
The Great Pilikian
Posts: 68
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Post by Roner on Jan 31, 2005 11:38:49 GMT -5
Agreed! I think the flashback & flashforward thing made the whole episode a little bit hard to follow. I think it would have been easier to follow if they had just used flashbacks as parallels (as they did) to explain or give more depth to Starbuck's hang up with the viper pilot training. It was also well used during the funeral for the pilots killed in the hanger accident, again giving depth to Starbuck and Lee's perspective. Maybe I'm not thinking this through enough, but I really don't get why they were peppering in the flashforwards of Starbuck careening through some planet's atmosphere obviously in distress. Nothing like being a 'punch-you-in-the-face' spoiler for your own episode! Re: the photograph of the pilot watching a city burn to ruines. This was brought up in an earlier thread. I don't remember the exact explanation so if anyone else reading this has a better explanation, please correct me if I'm wrong. I remember it being mentioned that the photo from the first Cylon war. VPM It's funny you bring this is up. On Sunday I was talking to my Mom about BSG and she said watched this epsiode and didn't care for it. She hasn't watched the series at all prior to this. She was confused the whole time. I told her it was answering questions we've had since the mini and it was a great one if you have been watching all along. She'd said she would try to watch more episodes to see if she can get into it. I'm going to loan her a tape with 33 and water on it. That should hook her. So I guess I do have one gripe about this episode, it's not accesable for newbies. I collect comics and many writers keep one thing in mind when writing an issue, "This is somebodys very first comic". I think writiers of TV shows should use this logic too. |
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Post by Soulmage on Jan 31, 2005 12:22:39 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I don't think you can make every episode "accessible for newbies" when you've got an ongoing plot with each episode incorporating the events of all the episodes prior.
I had a first-timer watch this episode also, and she was also confused but did enjoy it. I showed her the mini a couple days later and it made a lot more sense to her.
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Jester
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Where's my drink?
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Post by Jester on Jan 31, 2005 12:37:42 GMT -5
Great thanks for the Q&A link! I don't know what's more bizarre, the fact someone asked him why the corners of all the papers on BSG have the corners cut off or his reply was that it was a show secret??
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Post by Dangermouse on Jan 31, 2005 12:52:59 GMT -5
That was a great Q&A. You know what I find really bizarre? That I haven't noticed the page shape until it was pointed out on the blog  Re: newbies. There's only so much you can do, unless you have an episodic "reset button" type of show. My other show of choice was Farscape which was also heavily arc-based, and by S4, the "previouslys" had gotten humonogous and it still would have probably been confusing to newbies. It's a trade-off I think. |
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Post by caseOrange on Jan 31, 2005 12:58:40 GMT -5
Maybe I'm not thinking this through enough, but I really don't get why they were peppering in the flashforwards of Starbuck careening through some planet's atmosphere obviously in distress. Nothing like being a 'punch-you-in-the-face' spoiler for your own episode! Agreed. It was kind of confusing at first, not knowing that it was a flash-forward instead of a flashback. When the scene finally arrived in the episode, it was almost anti-climactic except for its cliff-hanger quality. Unfortunately, I don't think you can make every episode "accessible for newbies" when you've got an ongoing plot with each episode incorporating the events of all the episodes prior. Also agreed. TNS is more like a soap opera (but not in the negative sense of that term). It would be hard for a soap to recap everyone's background before every show, especially the soaps that have been running for 20+ years. |
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Post by caseOrange on Jan 31, 2005 13:06:04 GMT -5
I don't know what's more bizarre, the fact someone asked him why the corners of all the papers on BSG have the corners cut off or his reply was that it was a show secret?? That was bizarre, since in TOS the corners of paper were cut off, also. Somebody wanna ask Larson what that's all about? Or maybe someone has a link to Larson answering this question? My guess is: it was just for looks so as to lend an aire of futuristic-ness to the show.  |
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Jester
Nugget
Where's my drink?
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Post by Jester on Jan 31, 2005 15:33:56 GMT -5
Strange that scene would be on the floor when they pan in on the characters touching it everytime they enter the squadron RR. Whereas I can see why they left that scene out perhaps that scene should've been done in another episode *shrug*?
I think this was meant to seen as Starbuck's life flashing before her eyes as she is about ready to burn up in the atmosphere. To me the whole episode was a retrospective leading up to her bail out. At one point I thought she was having a dream about a past incident on BSG prior to armageddon. That added an interesting flavor to the episode which was really cool. This is almost my favorite EP next to 33 but there's so many left to go.....
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kingfish
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Post by kingfish on Feb 7, 2005 9:25:12 GMT -5
We start out with a quick recap of Kara telling Lee it was her fault Zak died. The episode starts with Kara and lee painting the number 1000 on one of the pilots helmuts to honor his thousandth landing. In the landing bay they are toasting the pilot and have placed him in a cart and are spinning him around while shouting happy phrases. Tyrol is there. Unknown to them tragedy is about to strike as a lose armament falls off a cart it is secured to exploding killing many pilots. Fortunately William, Kara, and Lee were on there way there. William was a hotshot pilot on the Atlantia as Kara tells Lee the story of how his Father made a few unintended landings contrary to being waved off. An investigation is made and if this ahd been a missile it would have been worse. Tyrol can't believe it because nothing like this has happened on his watch. Well if he had been paying attention the accident would have been avoided. Throughout the episode we see Starbuck in a Viper in various stages of flight and at one point she is fighting for her life to eject as the ship is spiraling out of control. A set up for the end of the episode. Kara is now the one who must train the new pilots. "I am known as Starbuck but you can address me as God." One of the recruits decides to make jokes and is instantly given the name "Hotdog." Well Hotdog is Olmos' real life son who is a spitting image of him. Kara is also fighting her guilt as it was she who allowed Zak to pass flight training when he should have never been let near a Viper. At a cardgame with Dr Baltar we see kara recollecting the love affair as they are having SEX. Zak is worried that he failed but she tells him don't be. Zak is good in the sack so he passes the course. Kara leaves the game. We see very little of Baltar and Tigh in this episode. Baltar is the show IMHO. Callis lights up the screen. In the meantime Helo and Boomer find a bomb shelter with food, water, medicine, and a disaster beacon which is activated while we see a Six walking by the place. Helo is being lead around like a puppy dog IMHO. Kara is putting the pilots through their drills and is unimpressed. We see one land or land so bad that Kara decides they don't cut it. She tells them they are through after one day. In the original pilot training was conducted mostly by simulator since the fleet was short of fuel for training flights. The CGI with the Vipers is impressive but at time it looks like the sequences came from the BG game. William Adama can't understand Kara's logic. Lee is in his office when accidentally believing his father knows the truth about Zak spills the beans. "Kara doesn't want to do for them what she did for Zak." "WHAT did she do for Zak?" "You will have to ask her." Adama does ask and is stunned by the revelation [It turns out that Starduck passed Zak because they were engaged to be married and she thought it the right thing to do]. William upon hearing this looked as if here were going to throw her through the bulkhead. Earlier in the episode while both having a drink Adama stated it was never her fault. Kara is seen crying as her guilt is lifted. Kara is renewed and decides to give the recruits a second chance. We see some great Viper sequences as the group is going through their maneuvers as well as some spiffy dialogue. "Stick to your wingman at all times." Frack, Starbuck told that to Athena in the original. I was expecting to see Dirk at any minute. Also speaking of Dirk, it is mentioned at the beginning of the episode that they could have used civilian flight instructors to teach the recruits. This might have been a way to bring Dirk on the show as Chameleon an ex flight instructor. Back to the topic. The group is going through their maneuvers when the Cylons show up. Kara insists they return to the Galactica. This is also like Lost Planet of the Gods when Apollo tells Dietra to return to base since the sky will be full of Cylons. "Where are the alert fighters?," utters Kara. That was the same line they used in Top Gun. Kara decides to do her Tom Cruise ripoff and begins shooting the heck out of the Cylons. "My God Starbuck is going to get herself killed," states a sympathetic Tigh. However don't worry since Hotdog is there. He decides to lend a hand. Hotdog blasts a number of Cylons before his ship is damaged. "You go left, I will go right." Another Top Gun Phrase. Kara is blasting the Cylons to hell when a Cylon ship collides with her Viper sending Kara spiraling out of control to a planet below. Fortunately she is able to eject. I could really like this show if it did it's own thing. This one was actually better than Bastile Day. Olmos shines as a brooding Adama. Saul or Paul Tigh is growing on me somewhat. Lee complains too much. I thought Bamber was suppossed to be the greatest actor according to some of his fans, having played in Horatio Hornblower and Band of Brothers but he is wasted in this role. Kara is I don't know what. The perfect actor to play the role would have been Matt LeBlanc of Friends and Joey fame because he has charm and that quality of freshness which reminds me somewhat of Dirk on os BG.
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Post by Big Brother on Feb 7, 2005 15:32:29 GMT -5
I think this was meant to seen as Starbuck's life flashing before her eyes as she is about ready to burn up in the atmosphere. To me the whole episode was a retrospective leading up to her bail out. At one point I thought she was having a dream about a past incident on BSG prior to armageddon. That added an interesting flavor to the episode which was really cool. This is almost my favorite EP next to 33 but there's so many left to go..... I initially assumed it was a flashback to the incident where Zak was killed...I was half expecting the big-ish revelation of the episode to be that Zak and Starbuck had collided, and Starbuck also had additional guilt for having survived the very accident that killed her lover. I was quite annoyed when "to be continued" came up on the screen. But that's what producers WANT you to feel when those words appear. "Dangit, I want to see what comes next!" |
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