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Post by MHall on Mar 2, 2005 19:42:58 GMT -5
I think you're basically right. I like in particular your thesis that they are looking for real immortality through religion, rather than fake immortality through technology. However, why would, say, Caprica red-coat Doral commit suicide once the new generation is established? Doesn't Six imply suicide is a sin in episode 9? Hmmm, I guess the 12 models may actually expect the new generation to exterminate them, in shades of "all of this has happened before." There is a cool implication of your thesis... the original 1978 series could have happened in a previous cycle (or possibly a subsequent one)!!! Alas, I think you crashed and burned in your last paragraph. See my take on Greek influence over on sciffy. Just leave your last paragraph off and it's a better thesis.
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Post by MHall on Feb 14, 2005 19:24:35 GMT -5
From the Associated Press...
Jenita Jeyarajah (mother of a baby who survived the Tsunami after being ripped from her arms) said that as soon as she regains custody of her son, she will fulfill vows to smash 100 coconuts at a temple of the elephant-headed Hindu god Ganesh, offer sweet rice to the warrior god Murugan and kill a rooster for the goddess Kali.
"Then, we'll decide what to do next," her husband said.
I think they will have a chuckle at the Trinity and Judgment Day and other Christian silliness, with the proof in their arms that their prayers work.
I think this kind of view reversal of religion is what Ron Moore has in mind, with the monotheistic cyborgs versus polytheistic humans.
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Post by MHall on Feb 13, 2005 17:13:23 GMT -5
All of this has happened before, and all of this will happen again. So the sacred scrolls tell us. So Leoben tells us. So say we all.
The sacred scrolls tell us that we each have our part to play in the current cycle, like character roles in a hit science fiction show. If we don't play our parts well, there may not be a renewal, much less a sequel. It is similar to the Fates, in Greek mythology.
Suppose the scrolls say your soul will only be saved if you play your part. So then, it matters not whether you live or die. It matters not whether your actions will later cause billions to die. The only way to save your immortal soul (and perhaps that of others) is to play your part in the current cycle.
I do think the writers intend for the viewers to go, "What the frack? Are these people daft? Why do they believe this nonsense? I can't make heads or tails of it!" It is only by seeing aliens treat nonsense as serious religion that we can reexamine the religious tenets of Earth's religions. I do consider BSG to be basically an anti-religion show, with the "bad guys" being the monotheistic ones who are on a genocidal religious crusade. I'm surprised the show gets no flack from religious conservatives (not that I've seen, anyway), while the show does get flack from a few TOS fans.
Back to the scrolls... The scrolls don't say anything explicitly about the Cylons. The scrolls are open to interpretation, though, and clearly the Cylons think the scrolls are talking about them.
The sacred scrolls tell us that a leader will come to lead the 12 tribes to Earth, but that the leader will die before they reach it. Perhaps the Cylons wish to replace the humans, with the Cylons' 12 models taking the role of the 12 tribes. Dr. Gaius Baltar almost has to be the leader whom the Cylons intend to take them to Earth. He is special somehow, with his remembering Kobol, and with his being chosen for breeding with Six. Sorry, Baltar, but the Cylons are going to make sure you die before they get to Earth!
The legends speak of the Arrow of Apollo - thrusting it into the Tomb of Athena will show them the way to Earth. It seems likely that the Cylons already brought the Arrow of Apollo to Kobol, and it didn't work for them, so they put it back in the museum on Caprica and pulled some strings to get the Colonials to do it for them. (Hmmm, which strings... gave them a raider, let them scan the FTL drive of another raider, and then sent orders to their Cylon agent Starbuck, Elosha, or Roslin to make them get the Arrow of Apollo.) I don't think the Arrow of Apollo scans DNA and thus rejected the Cylons. (People have been watching too much Stargate: Atlantis!) However, it may be that a "chosen one" is required... perhaps Gaius Baltar or Lee Adama. Or there may be some religious riddle to figure out, stumping the Cylons but perhaps within Elosha's grasp.
I must admit that my eyes glaze over when people talk about "real" religion, much less fantasy religion, so I wasn't paying as close attention as I should have... what else do the sacred scrolls tell us?
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Post by MHall on Mar 23, 2005 7:39:04 GMT -5
So do I. Its funny because CapricaBoomer seems more human even though she knows she is a Cylon. My take: No, one Caprica Boomer seems identical to one Galactica Boomer. That Caprica Boomer only recently found out she is a Cylon. She is the Sharon whom Helo and Tyrol knew. ("But I am Sharon, and that's something you have to understand!") My take: No, that Galactica Boomer has known for a long time that she is a Cylon. She fills in for the other Galactica Boomer when she's been drugged and abducted. She tries to convince her of her true Cylon identity, by demanding ("you owe me") that Baltar tests her and writing "CYLON" in Sharon's locker. The good Galactica Boomer is an identical copy of the Sharon Helo and Tyrol knew before the miniseries. Note that Galactica Sharon was happy as can be at the end of episode 11 (2 seconds screentime), and suicidal at the start of episode 12, and there can only be a few hours in between because Starbuck still has her blue dress. This was one of points at which Sharons have been switched on us. Another switch may have been on the basestar, but it's too soon to say.
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Post by MHall on Mar 21, 2005 6:16:53 GMT -5
I believe that there is no sleeper mode and that Boomers are being switched on us, so that makes it hard for me to know which Boomer is on Galactica at the end of ep 13, and thus how she will act, and thus what will happen to her. However, I think it's an "evil" Sharon, one who is working for the Cylons, and that means she took "good" Sharon's place as she was running back to the raptor. If so, she will probably intentionally seem like a monster under interrogation, after a brief period of acting innocent. This is because she needs to convince everyone that Galactica Sharon was evil, because there is another copy of Galactica Sharon about to come back (from Caprica.) The Cylons still hope to turn that Sharon to the dark side, though their first attempt didn't stick, and for sure the Cylons can't allow the humans to trust her, because then she could easily become a spy for the humans.
If the Sharon on Galactica is an "evil" one, it's very likely that she will be spaced ultimately, probably shortly before Sharon from Caprica arrives. If the Cylons are able to switch her with an evil one before she comes back, then you guys will never believe me.
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Post by MHall on Feb 15, 2005 16:09:34 GMT -5
That glowing spine promo scene is just to throw off the viewers from suspecting Helo to be a Cylon. First, Helo gave up his seat to Baltar, whom the Cylons viewed as valuable. Next, Six faked him out with the "Are you alive?" routine. Then Six started the experiment to see if a male sleeper Cylon could A) fall in love with a human and B) get a human pregnant. Then human Sharon spiked his anti-radiation meds, so he would not realize his superior endurance. Finally, Sharon tried to explain, "But I am [human,] Helo, and that's one of the things you need to understand [you stupid Cylon!]"
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Post by MHall on Feb 13, 2005 9:45:27 GMT -5
Yes. At the time I saw that bit, I thought, "Yes, I understand... I've been saying that humanoid Cylons are humans, plus some silica relays." However, now I see another possibility. Could it be that Caprica Boomer is human? Could it be that she lacks the silica relays that Galactica Boomer has? Could Caprica Boomer be a human who has been raised by the Cylons and indoctrinated in their culture? (Flashback to Cylon high school: "No! Something given has no value! When you vote, you are exercising political authority; you're using force. And force my friends is violence, the supreme authority from which all other authorities are derived.") Could the experiment ran by white-coat Caprica Six have been more about Boomer than Helo? Did they want to see whether a pure human "Cylon" could be trusted? If Caprica Boomer is human, then she could perhaps find a place in the Galactica fleet after all. I can think of one piece of counterevidence: Boomer out-endured Helo when running from the toasters. However, maybe she understood better the danger. Also, I could believe that the lean mean Grace Park would beat the heftier Tahmoh Penikett in a marathon. If Caprica Boomer is 100% human, no preservatives or additives, then is she a clone, or is she the original human whose genotype was used for the clones (some or all of whom received silica relay implants)? I'm uncomfortable with this theory that Caprica Boomer is totally human, so somebody please shoot a hole in it.
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Post by MHall on Feb 12, 2005 14:37:30 GMT -5
I just realized something "awful." If Galactica Boomer is still a fully functioning Cylon agent, then she should immediately confess "everything," because her cover is about to be blown anyway by Starbuck (and/or Caprica Boomer) returning from Caprica. She should say how she found herself wet with explosives just before the water tanks blew. She should say that she left the access hatch open, the one that Doral used. She should say that she tried to kill herself, because she was afraid she was a Cylon. She should say how she saw all the Sharons on the basestar, confirming her worst fear. With tears streaming down her face, she should then lie and say that once she knew she was a Cylon, she defected to the humans' side. Then she will say because of her defection she blew up the basestar and she shot Adama, because he is a Cylon. Boomer will be lying, but Loeben has already planted the seeds of doubt in the minds of both the viewers and Roslin with his statement "Adama is a Cylon." Then the writers will leave us with this mind-frack until at least the following episode.
Baltar's test of Boomer was confidential, probably. If Boomer does not point her finger at Baltar, it is probably evidence that she is still a fully functional Cylon.
If Baltar makes it back to Galactica, they might call on him to deprogram Boomer. I could see Six saying, "And just like that, Dr. Baltar invents the "Amazing Cylon Deprogammer."
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Post by MHall on Feb 12, 2005 5:17:58 GMT -5
Although they may initially jump to the conclusion that she is a Cylon, reason will prevail and they will lock her away, awaiting either court martial or a tribunal. No doubt Colonial history contains instances of commanders being assassinated by subordinate officers. And in our history, we have the enlisted men who fragged their own LT's in Vietnam, and Nazi officer Claus Schenk von Stauffenberg and his fellow conspirators who tried to assassinate Hitler. Remember, there was an assassin running loose on Colonial Day, and he was not a Cylon, so one need not be a Cylon to be an assassin.
But before much can be done with Galactica Boomer, I would expect that Starbuck and/or Boomer will return from Caprica. Then if Boomer has not been rescued from the brig (by Gaeta or Boxey), she probably will be executed.
Meanwhile, the writers cannot pass up the fun of having the crashed raptor crew on Kobol encounter another Boomer, whom they think is friendly Galactica Boomer there to rescue them. Only Baltar will know that she is a Cylon, so hilarity will ensue while Baltar tries to disuade the group from following Boomer without blowing his own cover.
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Post by MHall on Feb 11, 2005 14:38:00 GMT -5
I think they will encounter the Pegasus and possibly some rogue classic Cylons, but not in season two. They should save that for when they are running out of story ideas.
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Post by MHall on Mar 8, 2005 13:39:46 GMT -5
MrNiceGaius, that captain was not retained under his contract, and it would be a bit jarring to see him suddenly return in season 2, episode 1 to take command.
KELLY: I just wanted to say what a pleasure it's been serving with you in your command.
ADAMA: Captain Kelly, it's been my honour. Good luck in your next assignment.
I think we have to assume that Captain Kelly left on a shuttle right after that, before the Cylon attack.
Gkrts, I am taking your word on it that Shelly Godfrey disappears in a flash of light, so I would be inclined to believe she is from another civilization, probably one of the nearly immortal Lords of Kobol. I don't like the idea of Cylons possessing transporter technology, so I love your theory, and I have rolled it into my theories in other threads. If the humanoid Cylons were created in the image of the Lords of Kobol, then when the Lords of Kobol themselves appear, it's hard to tell the difference. These Lords of Kobol, being technologically advanced, can probably "interface" with Cylons. And they can also probably weakly interface with demi-Cylons: half human, half Cylons. And thus give them visions, with "them" being Baltar and Roslin, thus far. However, I think it's fairly likely that Baltar and Roslin do have chips or something equivalent... but it's the Lords of Kobol who give them visions, not the Cylons.
So, in a future season, I think we will see posts like, "Is Adama a Lord of Kobol?" instead of (or in addition to) "Is Adama a Cylon?"
Back to Shelly Godfrey. Adama concludes that she was real, because he finds her glasses in CIC. However, if the Lords of Kobol exist, there are all kinds of explanations for how those glasses could have gotten there (if they were even there): they could have been transported in, they could have been placed there by a Cylon who is under control of the Lords of Kobol, etc.
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Post by MHall on Mar 4, 2005 13:44:29 GMT -5
I predict Roslin will be attacked, and either Starbuck or Lt. Gaeta will avenge her! Oh wait, that already happened in episode 13, with Adama attacking Roslin, and Lt. Gaeta avenging her. But I "predicted" it from a mapping to Greek mythology that I made for unrelated reasons over in the It's All Greek to Me! thread. Based on the same Greek mapping, I made more predictions in that thread that should occur early in season two. Allow me to repeat the predictions for those who don't wish to wade through all the mythlogy: Then Roslin will flee to the "temple of Athena" [which we now know as the "tomb of Athena" down on Kobol.] But somebody who corresponds to Little Ajax (I suspect the smaller of a duo introduced in episode 11 [the guy that Starbuck fought]) will track her down, optionally rape her, and then drag her off into slavery, still clutching a statue of Athena.I have more predictions. I predict Roslin will use the unlikely words, "misshapen toad" or "misshapen daggit" (to "Little Ajax".) I predict at some point Roslin will be cursed to always prophecize the truth and never be believed. I'm not sure if this has already happened. (Starbuck believed her, but she probably corresponds to Roslin's patron saint, in the mythological mapping.) It should happen after Roslin spurns Apollo, but I don't recall her doing so yet. It's also the case that Apollo should be incapable of telling a lie, just like the Greek god. So listen to Apollo and Roslin! On another front, I predict Tyrol or Crashdown is the father of pregnant Sharon's baby, the one on Caprica, I mean. Now this one is a huge speculation, because there are just too many variables. But something like this will happen. Pregnant Sharon, Helo, and optionally Starbuck will wind up on Kobol. Sharon will go scouting. Crashdown-n-crew meet up with her(*), and boy are they happy to see her, because they know nothing of what has happened on Caprica or Galactica. Cylons probably chase them at that point, but they escape and make camp for the night in a cave. Worried because Sharon is overdue, Helo will search for her and he will find her... spine glowing with Crashdown! He is "sure" it is his Sharon. He will throw a temper tantrum and hold the two up to ridicule to Calli and the rest. Tyrol and another Sharon will then come out to see what the commotion is about. With two Sharons, and her three lovers, hilarity ensues. (*) Not necessarily the same Sharon! At this point, there will be at least 2 pregnant Sharons, probably 3, and at least one of them is already many weeks pregnant. Helo will not be the father of any of the babies. The babies will correspond to Phobos (Phebe?), Deimos (Damion?), Anteros (Anthony?), and/or Harmonia (Harmony?).
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Post by MHall on Feb 28, 2005 7:14:53 GMT -5
The bigger picture is that in season two the Cylons may be the least of the fleet's concerns. Paranoia and internal conflicts are brewing: a military coup, a ruthless president, Zarek, Ellen, the assassin's assassins (from Ep. 11), religious fanatics, etc. At least the Cylons probably aren't trying to destroy or capture the Galactica, but the plans of Zarek or others may not be so kind.
We will also see Cylons (known as such to all) entering human society for the first time. Well, it has already started, with Caprica Boomer being tolerated by Helo and probably soon Starbuck. At some point, we will also see humans entering Cylon society. If Baltar leaves the fleet, he won't be so lonely like the TOS Baltar, because he'll have a lot of playthings.
And either in season two or three we will dive deep into Cylon society, which will prove every bit as fractionated as Colonial society. I guess this requires that a couple more Cylon models are coughed up soon, or that it's revealed that are older/younger instances of the existing models. We already have seen linkage between instances of the same model, like Caprica Six beating the snot out of Starbuck in a cruel way, after Internal Six was jealous. Yet we have also seen model-on-same-model violence (Caprica Boomer versus white coat Caprica Boomer, Galactica Boomer versus a basestar full of Boomers.) So, it's not clear if Cylon factions will strictly follow model lines... I hope not. Of course, it's no biggy if a Cylon destroys a Cylon... they can't die. Except for waking up in a different place, the destruction of a Cylon is perhaps something like a human fist punch... it's gotta hurt, but it (normally) won't kill you. They still can have power struggles.
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Post by MHall on Feb 23, 2005 8:11:43 GMT -5
I read some speculation on scifi.com, and I think it may be correct. It ties together two loose ends: "Adama is a Cylon" and "You don't want to be here when it happens!"
Here is my version of this speculation. Suppose internal Six knew that Commander Adama's Cylon test results were going to altered by a Cylon agent, changing Adama's result from "human" to "Cylon." So she warned Baltar, "You don't want to be here when it happens," because this would implicate not only Commander Adama but also Baltar, since Baltar said Commander Adama passed the test. Baltar left on the doomed raptor, and brainiac Gaeta started snooping through Baltar's lab and found (or planted) the test results saying Commander Adama is a Cylon. He went to Boomer with the information, because her test result said she was human (or else because she was a fellow Cylon.) They possibly consulted with another "confirmed" human, Laura Roslin, who told them the "Adama is a Cylon" tip from Leoben. They hatched a plan to assassinate Commander Adama at the first sign of trouble. Trouble came quickly, when Adama launched a military coup. Lt. Gaeta felt they could wait no longer and handed Boomer a gun as Adama was entering.
The first two or three episodes will feature a witch hunt gone awry. Boomer, Lt. Gaeta, Baltar, Commander Adama, and possibly Laura Roslin will vary in their apparent Cylon status from episode to episode or even commercial break to commercial break.
I think Galactica Boomer will confess to being a Cylon, but will explain that she consciously switched to the human side after she saw the copies of herself, and she will try to explain that she is now a good Cylon, and that's why she shot Adama - because at the time she thought he was a bad Cylon. Meanwhile, Caprica Boomer will return, with Helo (and possibly Starbuck) saying Caprica Boomer is a good Cylon too.
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Post by MHall on Feb 10, 2005 5:18:31 GMT -5
I don't know the military protocol on such things, but Dr. Cottle is way too frakking busy at the moment and for probably the whole first episode of season two.
And what makes you think he is a major? What makes you think he is even military? I mean, maybe you're right, but I want to see the evidence.
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