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Post by MHall on Mar 15, 2005 8:10:28 GMT -5
Au contraire. That is the whole point. The "Cylons" want to study a "Cylon" who thinks he is a human. The question is, "Is he alive?" if he doesn't realize he is a "Cylon."
I strongly, strongly, strongly believe Boomer was already pregnant before she had sex with Helo.
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Post by MHall on Mar 14, 2005 16:55:09 GMT -5
Eek! I didn't read the above. I'd just like someone to tell me if any of my crazy ideas seem to have merit (or to lack merit), based on the above.
Some of my predictions are:
* Helo is a "Cylon." One of him will wind up on Kobol.
* Helo will go nuts when he catches a Sharon with Tyrol, and he will publicly humiliate them.
* Caprica Sharon is pregnant, but not by Helo. Tyrol is the most likely father, but Gaeta is a strong second! Probably both Tyrol and Gaeta.
* Sharon is pregnant with twins! I mean, two Sharons are both pregnant with the same baby.
* Roslin will flee to the Tomb of Athena, but someone will corner her there and drag her off and into captivity.
* Apollo will get tossed off the Galactica and wind up herding animals for Zarek or Baltar for a period of 8 or 9 episodes/days/weeks.
* Dualla won't put out for Billy and then will turn into a tree.
* Then this I'm not sure about, but probably Adama will die. If so, Adama really was replaced by a duplicate. The original will come back.
* And it's hard to say now, but I suspect the Sharon who came back from the basestar is not the same one who went. But I suspect she is the same one (or a copy) of the Sharon from the miniseries and several early episodes. And she is pregnant. And she is good.
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Post by MHall on Mar 3, 2005 6:58:19 GMT -5
In the dream, Leoben gets sucked away (just like out the airlock), then Laura turns around and he is right there and says "Laura." This is further evidence that Laura has Leoben's katra. Enough to convince me!
However, I overlooked one important detail in the dream. In the dream, Leoben whispers, "Cylon, Cylon, Cylon!" pointing to the running soldiers. Does that mean 3 Cylons? Or does that mean they are all Cylons? Or does it mean that there is just one Cylon among them? The soldiers sent after Roslin included Tigh and Apollo. Because of a mapping to Blade Runner (EJO=EJO, Starbuck=Rachel, Apollo=Deckard), I already suspected Apollo is a Cylon (switched at birth.) Maybe Apollo and two random marines are Cylons? Maybe the two marines who were supposed to be tailing Shelly Godfrey? Or maybe Tigh is a Cylon, and he made up the story about having two marines tailing Shelly Godfrey before she rounded a corner and disappeared. Or maybe there is just one Cylon, and it's Apollo. Between this and "Adama is a Cylon," I'm starting to tighten the noose on Lee Adama's neck!
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Post by MHall on Mar 3, 2005 6:12:07 GMT -5
We can link what happened in episode 13 to Roslin back to her dream sequence episode 8.
First of all, because of Moore's references to Blade Runner, this dream sequence is probably ultra-important, yet subtle! The unicorn dream in the director's cut of Blade Runner totally changes the meaning of the film - and it was originally cut out by the studios, because they thought the dream looked too artsy.
I think one meaning of the dream in episode 8, with being chased by apparently human soldiers and hiding with Leoben, is a foreshadowing of what happens in episode 13. It is a message that Laura Roslin would be persecuted by the military branch, hunted down like a witch/Cylon. But that Leoben will try to protect her.
Later in episode 8, Leoben tries to protect Roslin with the warning, "Adama is a Cylon." And for his kindness, Leoben is punished by Roslin by being tossed out an airlock. Leoben is not one to hold a grudge, so we should see Leoben try to help Roslin again in later episodes and in season two, through visions, dreams, and whatnot. I'm not sure how Roslin could again punish Leoben, while he's in her head, but maybe she'll figure out some way!
I think Roslin is a human with a chip in the head, just like Baltar. And Leoben is living there now, although even before, he could access the chip and give her visions. My main evidence is Star Trek II and III(!) (Roslin=McCoy, Leoben=Spock, Starbuck=Kirk with the teary eyed goodbye through the glass, and so now Roslin has Leoben's katra and will go on a quest to reunite him with his body.)
Is Adama a Cylon? My guess is that Leoben tells Roslin this, because once trapped in her head, if Roslin dies, Leoben dies. (No soul transfer mechanism in the little chip implants, as I think internal Six once implied.) So, Leoben wants Roslin to stay on her toes about Commander Adama, because he foresees a mortal danger to Roslin there (and/or threat to the Cylon Plan.) However, I think the statement is also literally true in a tricky way, meaning either Lee is a Cylon, or Zak is a Cylon, or everybody is a Cylon in some sense. This kind of duplicity is Leoben's style, and he would be privately laughing his butt off if Roslin misinterprets him in the way that he wishes.
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Post by MHall on Mar 8, 2005 11:15:44 GMT -5
Answer: They did. Answer: The Cylons have been patient for 40+ years, but they're not that patient - they are not going to wait millions of years. "Breeding the humans out" first of all wouldn't necessarily work (why would they trust that evolution would allow Cylon genes to prevail?), and second of all it wouldn't fit the Cylon plan. The attack was meant to "exhalt" this new generation of Cylon-human hybrids, which I will name "demi-Cylons." They killed off 99.99% of humans, while they saved most of the demi-Cylons. The Cylons had arranged for a lot of the demi-Cylons to have jobs on the Galactica, and for a lot more to be saved in the mini-series when Boomer was in charge of rounding up the civilian ships. This may also explain why Doral is so upset about leaving behind the FTL-incapable ships, but once Roslin makes up her mind, the Cylons destroy those ships (and a lot of demi-Cylons therein) to make it look good, because they were going to be left behind anyway. This is why the Cylons don't just wipe out the fleet now, because that would be the end of the new generation. So, demi-Cylons have gone from a miniscule fraction of the population before the attack to a large fraction now! For a tie-in to greek mythology, see It's All Greek to Me! and my discussion of Greek demigods there.
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Post by MHall on Mar 6, 2005 20:35:51 GMT -5
Suppose: Cylons are humans, plus silica relays. Pure human versions of the 12 Cylon genotypes exist; either the originals or clones of the genotype. The human versions may be totally pure, or they may have silica relays that just haven't been activated yet. If human clones grow up in Cylon society, then they are indoctinated in that culture. (Chip-implants are another possibility.)
Theory: We have two Helos: Helios-Helo and Hephaestus-Helo, and at least two Sharons on Caprica: Rhodes-Sharon and Aphrodite-Sharon. They are some combination of humans, Cylons, Cylons raised as humans, and/or humans raised as Cylons. The Helo-n-Sharon couple we have seen has likely been switched (when Sharon was abducted, and maybe other times.) Helios-Helo and Rhodes-Sharon will have a baby girl named Electrione. Hephaestus-Helo will think he is the father of Aphrodite-Sharon's baby, but the father will actually be an Ares (probably Tyrol or Crashdown.) The baby will be a girl named Harmony.
It's hard to say who is what, but I'll go with this:
Helios-Helo is a human (genotype of one Cylon model). Hephaestus-Helo is a Cylon who thinks he is human. Rhodes-Sharon is a human (genotype of one Cylon model) raised in Cylon society. Aphrodite-Sharon is a Cylon who thinks she is human.
More predictions: Group 1: Hephaestus-Helo (Cylon who thinks he is human), Rhodes-Sharon (human raised as a Cylon, but "gone native" now), and Starbuck will take the raider but wind up at Kobol. Remember Sharon saying, "But I am [human], Helo, and that's something you need to understand [you stupid Cylon]!"? Note that Hephaestus-Helo did not get anyone pregnant, and he did not even have sex with Rhodes-Sharon - that was Aphrodite-Sharon whose spine was glowing. On Kobol, Hephaestus-Helo will build cool metal things under a volcano. He will catch another Aphrodite-Sharon spine-glowing with Tyrol (or Crashdown) and publicly ridicule them. Oh, cool, it's really Tyrol's Sharon! In the basestar she got switched with an Ares-Sharon (Ares is the god of war and murder) or Hera-Sharon (Hera tried to kill Zeus=Adama), then when the basestar was nuked, her consciousness was transferred into an identical body... on Kobol!
Group 2: Helios-Helo will go to Galactica with Aphrodite-Sharon (Helios travels "in a gold chariot from Hephaestus," so I'm guessing they don't use the captured raider.) Note that this is not the Sharon whom he had sex with... she's the one above, on Kobol now. On Galactica, Helios-Helo will publicly ridicule his Aphrodite-Sharon, or else the Sharon in the brig (possibly for having an affair with Tyrol or Crashdown.)
Bigger theory: True Cylons cannot take a role outside the 12 Lords of Kobol (i.e., 12 greek Gods of the Pantheon.) Thus they need humans, because otherwise they cannot fill all the roles (Greek mythology figures) for the current cycle of time. They may have a breeding program designed for humans-to-humans. For example, they paired two humans, Rhodes-Sharon and Helios-Helo, to make Electrione, who is to play a somewhat obscure but necessary role.
Ron Moore said:
Adama is a Cylon.
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Post by MHall on Mar 6, 2005 14:34:42 GMT -5
Can Helo be the father of Boomer's baby from the Greek mythology angle? I am sure that Tyrol maps to Ares. I am pretty sure at least one Boomer maps to Aphrodite (who was wounded at Troy.) Aphrodite had children by Ares, but Hephaestus was her husband, with whom she had none. In one version of the myth, Hephaestus found out about the affair and publicly ridiculed Ares and Aphrodite. In another version of the myth, Helios found out and shined his light on them for all to see. So, does Helo map to Hephaestus or Helios? If Helo maps to Hephaestus, then he cannot be the father of any Aphrodite-Boomer baby. If Helo maps to Helios, then pregnant Boomer must be someone Helios had sex with, including Rhode, a Sea-Nymphe, who was a daughter of Aphrodite!
So, you have some possibility that Helo is Helios, and that pregnant Boomer is not Aphrodite, and that Helo is the father of her baby. However, despite the name similarity to Helios, Helo seems to map better to Hephaestus:
(from http://www.pantheon.org...)
Hephaestus, the god of fire, especially the blacksmith's fire, was the patron of all craftsmen, principally those working with metals. [Okay, I don't have much there, but I expect we'll see he's quite a handyman in the future] ... Known as the lame god, Hephaestus was born weak and crippled. [Helo's leg was wounded.] Displeased by the sight of her son, [Hephaestus is known as ugly, and when asked if Helo was attractive, Boomer replied, "I dunno, I guess so"] Hera threw Hephaestus from Mount Olympus, and he fell for a whole day before landing in the sea. [Helo fell in a slow unpowered flight from the heavens to Caprica, and I believe internal Six is Hera.] Nymphs rescued him [Boomer rescued him] and took him to Lemnos, where the people of the island cared for him. [This hasn't happened yet. But if they wind up on Kobol, then Kobol maps to Lemnos.]
Hephaestus helped to create the first woman, with the assistance of other gods, after Zeus had ordered that there be a new kind of human. [Hmmm, I think that taking care of a pregnant Cylon would count as helping to create a new kind of human, no matter who is the father.]
Congratulations Tyrol, it's a girl! And her name is Harmony, since that was the only daughter of Ares and Aphrodite. Unfortunately, I do not win the prize for predicting the name. I remember that someone guessed "Harmony" in a "name Sharon's baby" thread long ago, but search fails to find it. Whomever you are, you win a CD single of Bone Thugs-N-Harmony doing "Not My Baby"!
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Post by MHall on Mar 3, 2005 9:21:04 GMT -5
The above gives me an idea about Ellen.
In the mini-series, an instance of the Ellen model makes it to the fleet. But it is not the Ellen that was Tigh's wife. She plays dumb, or maybe really is dumb, for a few weeks. Finally, between episode 8 and 9, the Cylons find an opportunity to make the switch with the "real" Ellen, the one that was Tigh's wife. Well, not exactly the same one, physically, as that one got nuked just as she had been carried onto a transport to depart Caprica, but the new body contains all the memories and consciousness of Tigh's wife, right up to being in the ship and poof. She doesn't remember being vaporized, because you wouldn't realize it either... too fast. Now after being switched with the other Ellen, she awakes in this hospital bed, but she doesn't remember the last few weeks, episodes 1-8. She really doesn't remember. Her consciousness may have existed only on a hard drive during that time.
It's also possible that the body was never physically switched, but that the Ellen that was in the sickbay was an uninitialized body, just waiting to receive a Cylon soul. When finally she received the soul of Tigh's wife, this overwrote some or all of the memories the human brain contained of the last few weeks, though she does remember vividly everything before she got nuked.
You didn't hear it here first, but Ellen is a Cylon! It's kind of nice to have a wife who cannot die, well, unless your wife is Ellen.
"BOO! Hahahahahaha!"
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Post by MHall on Mar 3, 2005 8:45:14 GMT -5
Sigh. Try this...
Between episode 1 and 2, Boomer is in her Raptor with her new flight officer, Cylon buddy Crashdown (who doesn't see water on his sensors later, hmmm.) They are scouting ahead of the fleet with a short jump. Holy cow, they found a Cylon basestar! But it is no coincidence. They calmly fly into the docking bay. Good pregnant Boomer is offloaded, and her place on the raptor is taken by new evil Boomer (whose human part won't remember any of this.) Evil Boomer and Cylon agent Crashdown return to Galactica. Evil Boomer goes for a refreshing swim. Then evil Boomer's human brain awakes, and ponders why she is dripping wet.
Meanwhile, good pregnant Boomer is flown back to Caprica, which takes only a single jump, but she has plenty of time.
Meanwhile, a third Boomer may be the one who found Helo making out with Six and then killed Six. Then when she sneaks off for a Cylon meeting, she meets with the pregnant Boomer, who then goes to Helo in her place. Later pregnant Boomer has sex with Helo, and a couple episodes later she starts puking, and a couple episodes after that she reveals to Helo that she is pregnant. Indeed, she has been pregnant the whole time with Tyrol's baby.
It's possible that the third Boomer is not necessary, depending on the timing. However, it fits some of my other theories (the trigger-happy Boomers have Ares personalities - the nymphomaniac Boomers are Aphrodite or Hestia or similar peaceful personalities.) In any case, there wasn't any Sharon shortage before episode 13!!!
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Post by MHall on Mar 2, 2005 17:59:17 GMT -5
And regarding Sharon switches, I didn't mention it, because it doesn't related to pregnant Sharon switching, but there is a very real possibility that the Sharon who came back in episode 13 was not the one who left on the mission! We didn't see exactly what happened, and neither did Racetrack, who could be a Cylon anyway.
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Post by MHall on Mar 2, 2005 17:53:02 GMT -5
www.surebaby.com says, "Usually, [morning sickness] begins at four to eight weeks of gestation and subsides by 14 to 16 weeks." That fits my timeline better. Frack, where can I get a timeline for season 1? Boomer did the deed with Helo in, what, episode 8, and then had morning sickness in episode 10, and it's usually just a few days between episodes. Because Galactica Sharon seems to display even more than two personalities, I've been wondering if Galactica Sharon has been switched multiple times, and here you are thinking it's impossible she ever could have been switched. Any time Sharon is in a Raptor by herself or with only other Cylon agents (Crashdown?), and has jumped out of sensor range, then she can dock with a Cylon ship and do the switch. Also, Shelly Godfrey was able to disappear. Caprica Sharon is able to sneak off for a few minutes every episode to meet with Six and Doral. In as much time, she could jump to rendezvous with Galactica Sharon's raptor, when she's off on a scouting mission. I will have to watch all the episodes again, but it looks to me like Galactica Boomer has been switched by the start of episode 2, Water. When she "wakes up" dripping wet and she doesn't know what the frack is going on, that seems symbolic of a birth to me. Also, if the Sharon on Caprica now is really a "good" Sharon, then she must have left before Galactica Sharon started planting bombs. Another possible switch time is during the mini-series. All the passengers rescued by Sharon could be Cylons, except Baltar, who was either asleep or given a convincing illusion by internal Six, while Sharon and Boxey docked with a Cylon ship (perhaps unwillingly, though they are Cylons) and the switch was made. But, but, but, the lottery, you cry. I can see how this Cylon-operated lottery was likely rigged. Can you? At least one of the passengers may be a different aged version of a model we already know. See which one? Final possibility... the switch could have happened before the mini, while Sharon was on shore-leave or whatever. Subsequent personality switches might have been a matter of "reprogramming."
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Post by MHall on Mar 2, 2005 6:38:45 GMT -5
I heard some people over on sciffy speculating that Galactica Sharon and Caprica Sharon have been slowly switching personalities. What if they were switched? Congratulations Tyrol, you are the father of a new baby, uh, Cylon!!! This almost has to be true, right?
* In episode 6 (Litmus), Six says, "Sharon would not give up without a much harder fight," but as I recall she's replying to Sharon there, so doesn't that sound a little third-person-inappropriately-impersonal?
* From at least episode 8 (Flesh and Bone), Caprica Sharon is sweet, while Galactica Sharon has grown some fangs. She said harshly to Baltar: "you owe me," and then of course there is what happened in episode 13.
* There is Boomer's friendly relationship with Boxey, and then the deleted scene picture of Boomer pointing a gun at Boxey, which also suggests a drastic change.
* In episode 8, Sharon sings a Korean lullaby to the Raider, seemingly out of character from the old Sharon we knew.
* Tyrol seems to sense the change. I think he implied she was acting strangely in his "it's over" speech, and then there's his "What happened to us?" speech by Sharon's hospital bed.
* It is a total Blade Runner style mind-frack on the viewer, and Moore likes Blade Runner guns and plots and mind-fracks.
* The writers get soap opera points this way, with a real Tyrol-Sharon-Helo love triangle (with just one Sharon, the good one) and setting up "who's the father?" intrigue.
* If the mini-series Sharon did get pregnant by Tyrol, wouldn't we expect the Cylons to quickly get her off Galactica to protect the "new generation"?
* I had already been wondering how they would speed up the pregnancy. Presto, Sharon is now ~4 months pregnant instead of less than 1!
Now, about the alleged baby in the crib that Six showed Baltar... that one could be a Six-n-Baltar baby. And I am not at all sure which will be the first baby born... Tyrol-n-Sharon or Six-n-Balter. I suppose Six's jealousy of Sharon strongly suggests the Tyrol-n-Sharon baby will be first, yes.
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Post by MHall on Feb 23, 2005 6:13:16 GMT -5
I added two more bets in the first post... who will Baltar/Starbuck sleep with next?
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Post by MHall on Feb 15, 2005 13:40:27 GMT -5
Bet 1:Who will be the next member of the fleet to be revealed (to the audience) as a bonafide Cylon in season two of Battlestar Galactica?
0.5:1 - Lt. Gaeta (note: odds are less than 1:1) 3:1 - Other or None 9:1 - Ellen 12:1 - Laura Roslin 12:1 - Billy Keikeya 20:1 - Dualla 25:1 - Commander Adama 25:1 - Dr. Gaius Baltar 30:1 - Kara "Starbuck" Thrace 50:1 - Priestess Elosha 50:1 - Cally 60:1 - Dr. Cottle 60:1 - Boxey 60:1 - Tom Zarek 70:1 - Sergeant Hadrian 70:1 - Crewman Specialist Socinus 80:1 - Lee "Apollo" Adama 80:1 - Lt. "Hotdog" Constanza 100:1 - Racetrack 120:1 - Colonel Tigh 120:1 - Chief Petty Officer Tyrol 150:1 - Helo
"Bet" by posting in the thread below. Your post represents a 1 cubit bet, to win the listed number of cubits. For example, "3:1" means you will win a net of 3 cubits if you win your 1 cubit bet (i.e., 3-to-1 odds), whereas "0.5:1" means you will win only half a cubit for your risk of 1 cubit. You can only bet once for each listed bet in this thread.
The bet only pertains to those individuals currently with the fleet or known to be away on Caprica or Kobol. A chip in the head is insufficient for Cylon status. The individual must be an instance of one of the 12 Cylon models in order to qualify as a Cylon, and he must be at least posing as the character listed. Ships and other non-humanoids do not count. False implications/framings do not count.
Bet 2: Who will be the next person with whom Baltar will have sex in season two?
1:1 Other 1:1 Six (any real one) 6:1 Starbuck 10:1 Sharon/Boomer (any real one) 10:1 The reporter he got in the restroom stall 20:1 Laura Roslin 30:1 Racetrack 30:1 Dualla 30:1 Cally 40:1 None 200:1 Lt. Gaeta 200:1 Sergeant Hadrian 400:1 Priestess Elosha
Bet 3: Who will be the next person with whom Kara "Starbuck" Thrace will have sex in season two?
2:1 Other 2:1 None 3:1 Apollo 4:1 Dr. Gaius Baltar 6:1 Helo 10:1 Crashdown 25:1 Zarek 35:1 Lt. Gaeta 50:1 Colonel Tigh 60:1 Hotdog 70:1 Tyrol 80:1 Sharon/Boomer (any real one) 100:1 Crewman Specialist Socinus 200:1 Loeben (any real one) 200:1 Doral (any real one) 400:1 Commander Adama ("I said I was a screw-up.")
For bets 2 and 3, with apologies to Bill Clinton, "sex" includes oral sex. "Sex" also includes rape and implied sex, such as waking up in bed together naked. Only real sex with real people counts, not imaginary or chip-induced fantasies or flashbacks or visions. When a Cylon is listed, it refers to any real instance of that model.
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Post by MHall on Mar 16, 2005 8:38:01 GMT -5
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