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Post by MHall on Jan 2, 2005 12:52:33 GMT -5
Roslin and Adama... Lee Adama. I dunno, I just got the vague feeling something was building there. Maybe it was just building for the job assignment Roslin had in mind for Lee. I'll look more closely as I rewatch all the episodes now.
Ellen (Tigh's wife) "plus half the fleet." Maybe first with Chief Petty Officer Tyrol, since he would be vulnerable, looking to distance himself from Boomer. Would Boomer turn into a Six-like jealous bitch from hell?
Boomer should be looking for someone else to sink her teeth into, now that Tyrol is at best neutral to her. Baltar + Boomer + internal Six? Then again, maybe it would be more fun to have Baltar pursue someone else, with internal Six's ugly jealous side thwarting him at every attempt.
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Post by MHall on Mar 26, 2005 9:02:12 GMT -5
In the deleted scene for Hand of God at scifi.com, I count 6 snakes.
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Post by MHall on Mar 23, 2005 5:55:41 GMT -5
There just one problem with your mythological factoring. In the mini series, Boomer and Helo landed on Caprica after their raptor was damaged. Boomer took off with a load full of people and left Helo behind. Boomer and the people (including Baltar) ended up on Colonial One and eventually Galactica after they joined the fleet in an FTL jump to Ragnar. This is the Boomer that is now what we call Galactica Boomer. I think we can probably assume that this version of Boomer is the one that has been on Galactica all along and is the one involved with Tyrol. Nothing in the mini series suggested that she snuck back to Caprica to save Helo. No! Yes, but it's complicated!First, for the mythological mapping, it's irrelevant whether this Boomer was ever on Galactica - only her personality and relation to others (and their mappings) matter. Second, although no one agrees with me, I believe Boomers are being switched on us, and also that they are being copied atom-for-atom. You can read my thoughts in the Cylon forum. Interestingly, I just rewatched the start of the mini-series, and the Sharon there is the evil replacement Sharon, the one who knows she is a Cylon. (Once you recognize her distinct personality, you'll see it too.) If I am correct that Galactica Sharon is not just one Sharon, that means "sleeper mode" is unnecessary and probably nonexistant. There are simply Cylons who believe they are Cylons versus Cylons who believe they are humans (having living their whole lives in Colonial society) and these need some heavy-handed tactics to be convinced of the truth. I believe Crashdown and Helo are both Cylons (or half Cylons or Cylon agents.) What makes you think she is the ONLY Boomer that has been with Helo? Boomers could have been switched when Helo was knocked out and Boomer was "abducted" by the Cylons. And/or Helo could have been switched then. And any time one Boomer snuck away from Helo, she could have been switched with another, or he could have been switched with another. 11 days in between sex and puke... can someone confirm? Perhaps, but "For most women, morning sickness begins around the fourth week of pregnancy and resolves by the 12th week" (from vic.gov.au). So I stick with my statement that it is biologically unlikely that Helo got Sharon pregnant. He certainly only had one ovulation to shoot for. I say Boomer is pregnant by Tyrol. Congratulations, Tyrol, it's... identical twins... by two different Sharons! Unfortunately, as of episode 10, you haven't seen the "real" Galactica Sharon for a long time. (Last time was the end of episode 7, where she awoke drugged and found "CYLON" written in her locker - by the "evil" Sharon, no doubt, whose mission is to convince Sharon of her true nature.)
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Post by MHall on Mar 22, 2005 17:38:42 GMT -5
Biologically Caprica-Boomer's morning sickness is unlikely to be due to Helo. Mythologically, Caprica-Boomer cannot be pregnant by Helo. (She is Aphrodite, and he is Hephaestus. They were married, but had no children.) Tyrol is the father, IMO. That Caprica-Boomer is Tyrol's Galactica Boomer. And one Galactica Boomer is also the same person - I mean a copy thereof. Minor spoiler for Ep 12 KLG1 about raptor searches: Gaeta plots Boomer's jump to a planet, which, as you might guess from the episode title, turns out to be Kobol. Boomer comments that Gaeta plotted the jump.
Also, take note of Galactica Boomer at the end of Ep 11 versus beginning of Ep 12.
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Post by MHall on Mar 22, 2005 3:17:43 GMT -5
Lt. Gaeta is in charge of what raptor goes where. Hmmmm.
Actually, internal Six probably had the best fix:
SIX: All of this has happened before. All of this will happen again. BALTAR: Everyone knows that verse. What are you getting at? SIX: Remember this one? "Led by serpents numbering two and ten." BALTAR: The vipers... they're the serpents. SIX: There's a later verse, Gaius, you should read it. "Though the outcome favored the few, it led to a confrontation at the home of the gods." BALTAR: Are you telling me that god guided my finger to that target for some... arcane scriptural purpose? SIX: You are part of god's plan, Gaius. BALTAR: So god wanted me to destroy the Cylon base. SIX: You did well. You gave yourself over to him. BALTAR: Yes, suppose I did. Yes, there's-- there's really no other logical explanation for it. I was-- SIX: Am... BALTAR: I am an instrument of god.
Baltar's conclusion is quite illogical. Six's reference to Colonial scripture suggests that the Cylons are trying to force the myths into reality. So that is why the Cylons bugged out, despite having numerical superiority. Baltar should conclude that the Cylons blew up their own base after Apollo likely hit the wrong spot. And indeed, if we watch closely, we can see that Apollo's missile causes a small explosion on one side of the base and then a split second later an explosion on the other side of the base is the main explosion that destroys it. It's a small sacrifice for the Cylons to make to set up a "confontation at the home of the gods," I guess.
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Post by MHall on Jan 8, 2005 8:44:23 GMT -5
Here is a possible answer to the questions about how the noob pilots survive and why the Cylons didn't go for Galactica:
The Cylons didn't know where the Galactica was. However, once they saw some vipers, they knew it was somewhere close, and their top priority became to search-n-destroy Galactica. Take out the Galactica, and the vipers die slow deaths in the cold of space. These few vipers might simply be a delaying/screening force, so why not blow past them with only a few shots in passing, or maybe detaching just a squadron to keep those vipers occupied and off the tail of the main strike force?
But then why did the Cylons "bug out" when their base was destroyed and thus become easy targets for noob viper pilots? Why shouldn't the Cylons make a suicide run for the Galatica or whatever vipers (or freighters) they can find? If the vipers were faster than the Cylon raiders, then I could somewhat understand, because the vipers could run circles around the raiders until the Cylons ran out of fuel (and the Galactica could jump if need be.) But the vipers are slower, as I understand.
Finally, do all, some, or no Cylon raiders have FTL drive? I know we have seen some Cylon "raiders" with FTL, but maybe these were a distinct "scout" class of ship. If all the raiders in the episode had FTL, shouldn't they just jump away at the end rather than "bugging out"? Ah, perhaps they are rather stupid and need a commander on a base or basestar when they require coordinated behavior. (A commander cannot fit in a raider cockpit, after all, well, not without pulling out the brain!) With no one to coordinate an attack or sound the general retreat, they might indeed be easy to mop up.
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Post by MHall on Jan 5, 2005 8:50:53 GMT -5
The "Cylon occupied Canada" thread is boring me. Just imagine if it was innovative like the Galactica side of the story. As it is, they run and they run. Maybe two "people" plus one blonde and some chrome toasters is not enough for a story. Caprica Boomer's puking (and what it may signify) is the most exciting development, but still. Helo observed that there are no other people, yes, and I observe that there are no *bodies*. Maybe the daggets ate all the bodies, bones and all?
(The moderator censored me the first time I posted the above, saying it was the wrong episode. But I posted it in this thread and I am talking about "Hand of God." That's kind of the point, isn't it? That side story is almost the same every week!)
Here are some ideas to make the Caprica side story more interesting. First, they should run into a person in the next episode, after showing that Helo now understands that cylons can look like people. Helo decides to just kill the person, because it's the only way to be safe. And Boomer knows it was a human he just killed. With the look of horror on her face, you know she is starting to wonder if she wasn't better off on the side of the cylons.
Next, suppose Helo and Boomer run into a pack of wild daggets munching on some corpses. I think the daggets should just be real wolves/dogs, so no CGI or people in furry costumes. Of course, the bloody-faced daggets soon smell Helo and Boomer and pursue them, pushing them back towards the chrome toasters, who then push them back towards the daggets, like a game of pickle. Meanwhile on Galactica, a wolf-dagget is found in a cargo hold, and Boxey gets his pet, ah, so cute. In a later episode, the daggets are seen running *with* the chrome toasters and obey the commands of the blonde, and we come to realize that the daggets all look alike (all have one black paw or something) and *are* one of the 12 models of cylon.
Finally, Boomer comes clean with Helo and admits she is a cylon and just as he is about to kill her with a club, she tells him she is pregnant with their child and that she really loves him. He drops the club and cries. I'm sure something like this part will actually happen.
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Post by MHall on Jan 2, 2005 20:31:37 GMT -5
No real spoilers here. I just rewatched 33, and the perkiest people, aside from Internal Six, are:
1. Laura Roslin 2. Lee Adama 3. Lt. Gaeta 4. Boomer 5. Dualla
I was judging mostly for "dark circles under the eyes," as this couldn't be so easily acted by cylons. Roslin definitely has no coloring under the eyes. Aside from some stubble, Lee Adama is pretty much his usual self in appearance and attitude, in sharp contrast to Starbuck, who looks like death until she takes some uppers. Lt. Gaeta talks quickly and seems on his toes. Boomer acts tired in the fighter meeting, but doesn't look bad; someone comments that Boomer is the perkiest in the fleet and Starbuck jokes, "because she's a cylon!" Dualla acts exhausted in her first appearance, and makes one mistake, but later she is quick-acting and standing tall while most of her peers are falling asleep at their consoles - no dark circles, but she is dark-skinned.
Starbuck, Billy, and Cally had pronounced dark circles, so I declare them innocent of the charge of "cylon." Cally has dark circles only in her first scene, though.
Commander Adama and Tigh act tired but don't look that much worse than usual, aside from stubble.
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Post by MHall on Jan 2, 2005 9:33:39 GMT -5
Spoilers for first episodes 0-8...
In the mini-series, the character who is later marooned on Ragnar and turns out to be a cylon... shoot, what's his name, Aaron Doral... he was working strongly against Laura and for Lee Adama, in the initial confusion and power struggle. Together with the "Adama is a cylon" tip from the Leoben Conoy cylon, I conclude Lee Adama is a cylon and Laura is not. Additionally, the cylon females we have seen have all (all two models) had high sex drives (or pretended so, for the purpose of seducing helpful human males), whereas Laura does not show any sex drive. Laura's dreams are troubling me, but perhaps she has been implanted with a cylon in her head, like Baltar. I think the show will torture us to falsely make us suspect Laura, but she will ultimately be innocent.
I also think D. is a cylon, based on her high sex drive (grabbing and kissing a civilian in the hallway?!) and her sexually flirtatious response when she realized that the same guy, now president's aide, was pumping her for information. Plus he gets more action from her now that he is the president's aide. And finally, there is the possibly ironic line "start having babies" said by Commander Adama while he watched D. and this civilian flirting. It would be doubly ironic if the plan of the cylons is to start interbreeding with humans, now that they are a managable number.
D. n Lee... that's where I put my money.
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Post by MHall on Mar 9, 2005 8:39:29 GMT -5
Doral - They've searched every street, every building... they slipped through, how is that possible? #6 - She thinks she loves him now, that she can't live without him. Her passion is making her more resourceful. Doral - It bothers you, doesn't it? #6 - We'll get them in the end. Doral - No, it bothers you that you've never experienced it. #6 – (chuckles) You saw the way Helo was when we took her away? He was pathetic. (looks away with an expression of intense anguish) Doral - I can't help wondering what it would be like to feel that intensely. Even in his anguish, he seemed... so alive.The mythological mapping here is: Black Six -> Ares Red Doral -> Aphrodite Sharon -> Aphrodite Helo -> Hephaestus So, Ares-Six is walking along with her "lover" Aphrodite-Ares, who is married to Hephaestus. Ares-Six is jealous that Aphrodite-Sharon loves "her husband" Helo-Hephaestus, because any Ares would want the love and attention of any Aphrodite. Of course Ares-Six, god of war, cannot love! When Aphrodite-Doral asks her if this bothers her, Ares-Six says how pathetic Helo-Hephaestus was when they took Aphrodite-Sharon away. Ares likes neither Hephaestus nor weakness. "Even in his anguish, [Helo] seemed... so alive." Seemed. Clue that Helo is a Cylon? Spoiler for episode 10, (highlight to reveal.) Caprica Sharon vomits. Morning sickness from a pregnancy? Aphrodite never had any children with Hephaestus (Helo.) So, if Aphrodite-Sharon is pregnant, then it cannot be by Hephaestus-Helo. It may be by Tyrol, however, and he maps to Ares in other episodes. A pregnancy by Tyrol fits the pregnancy timeline better (morning sickness doesn't start so quickly.)
This in turn raises the possibility that Helo is a sleeper Cylon, and they are just maintaining his belief that he is human while they await an opportunity to get him back to Galactica in an unsuspicious manner.
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Post by MHall on Mar 8, 2005 23:03:16 GMT -5
Although Ellen's personality changes are explainable via alcohol, I believe Ellen's personality and role changes are better explained through Greek mythology. I think she is shifting between Aphrodite, Ares, and Hera (and maybe Dionysus.) Read this from a webpage on Aphrodite:"There are two myths of how Aphrodite was born. The poet, Hesiod, believed she rose up from the sea on a cushion of foam. Homer believed she was the daughter of Zeus and Dione. She was beautiful, magical, and irresistible. ... Zeus was afraid that the gods would fight over her hand in marriage so he quickly married her to Hephaestus."Ellen -> Aphrodite reappearance out of nowhere -> birth from foam Tigh -> Hephaestus Adama -> Zeus delivery to Tigh -> arranged marriage to Hephaestus In the protracted handshake scene between Black Ellen and White Baltar, where Tigh gives them both a warning, and Pink Six seconds that, the mapping might be this: Ellen -> Aphrodite Baltar -> Dionysus (lover of Aphrodite) Tigh -> Hephaestus (husband of Aphrodite) Six -> Aphrodite But otherwise, Black Ellen is obnoxious, offensive, and unlikable at the party, and then physically rough and dominating with Tigh after the scene with Baltar, so this is like Ares. Not convinced that White Ellen corresponds to Hera? Read from a webpage on Zeus:"... after Zeus had courted [Hera] unsuccessfully for some time, he turned to trickery - [he] changed himself into an injured bird; Hera, feeling sorry for it, held it to her breast to warm it, Zeus, taking advantage of the situation raped her. She then married him to cover her shame."Ellen -> Hera Adama -> Zeus wounded raider -> injured bird Adama allegedly sexually molesting Ellen -> Zeus' rape of Hera Ellen hugging Adama -> Hera marrying Adama In general, it's like this: Pink Ellen -> Aphrodite Black Ellen -> Ares White Ellen -> Hera (Except that Black Ellen switches back to Aphrodite when talking to Baltar.) There's something here.
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Post by MHall on Mar 8, 2005 22:54:50 GMT -5
Ellen goes through several attitude changes:
Adorable Ellen, in pink: tearful, sweet, loving, adoring, understanding, apologetic, insecure "The things I said before, the things I did... [shh, in the past.] Start over?"
Obnoxious Ellen, in black at the party - drunk, unruly, demanding, not understanding, abrasive, uncooth, silly, childish "Well, there are a few people who still might wonder if a kindergarten teacher is really the right choice to be president, but this is a tiny, tiny minority." Just after she made the mistake of mentioning Zak, she played footsy with Apollo - it was an inept seduction attempt, just like Shelly Godfrey's attempt to seduce Commander Adama.
Flirtatious Ellen, in black after the party: Ellen invites Baltar to join her and Tigh for a nightcap.
Aggressive Ellen, in black after flirting with Baltar - aggressive, physically powerful, dominating Ellen tells of some sexual misconduct by Adama while she was on the Rising Star, Tigh accuses her of lying, and she screams, "I AM NOT!" and powerfully pushes him away, a lot like Six in full aggression mode. Then mutters, "I can prove it," and orders, "Come on!" and drags Tigh off by the hand.
Truce Ellen, in white at the end - physically affectionate towards Adama, yet wary of him "I completely understand. But let's be sure to test you next." "You don't want to frack with me, Bill."
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Post by MHall on Mar 8, 2005 21:00:15 GMT -5
Are there two different pieces of music from the Shawshank Redemption in this episode? One of the first scenes has an opera aria... was it the same as played over the speakers in Shawshank? I'm not sure, but then there is the scene where Baltar, Roslin, and Adama are arguing in the lab. I'm pretty sure this scene has the same music as when Morgan Freeman says, "The man likes to play chess... let's get him some rocks." It's also in American Beauty. Thomas Neuman is the composer.
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Post by MHall on Mar 8, 2005 19:42:12 GMT -5
You are missing something. In one episode, 8 or 9, Adama says a problem with the test is that "...verification takes hours." So, the initial results are quick, but the verification takes hours.
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Post by MHall on Mar 2, 2005 20:52:11 GMT -5
Yes, Commander Adama is unavoidable as Zeus, because he is the father of Apollo. But that's a cool observation about Zarek's reference! See my Greek Influence post over on sciffy. My revised theory is more coherent, and there I did map Adama to Zeus. But there are other Zeuses as well, and different instances of Six (and Sharon) gets mapped to multiple gods.
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