Why I Don't Like It

[kingfish]

I have been giving this some thought and to say it sucks without a basic intellectual argument is a wee bit immature. ;D One of the main flaws in the show is the abundant deviation from the original premise. Yes they might be on the same quest as the original Colonials but it gets fuzzy from there. The original Colonials came from a star system that wasn't known to us. These colonials are from Earth but journeyed to the Colonies and have "lost their way like little lambs." Now the journey to the Earth has begun but rather then say that he doesn't know where the planet is William Adama says, "Fear not, I know where it is like the back of my hand." I like EJO. He made Miami Vice a winning show IMHO. However one actor can't carry the show. Look at Godfather III. Al Pacino couldn't make up for a bad script. Obviously there are other changes to Nu galactica that are more noticable. Sex changes for some of the main cast makes the story hard to follow. Also having some of them as potential Cylons is confusing. Who the hell is real. IMHO they should have made a character of Cassiopeia and had her be the Cylon trying to get information out of a male Starbuck through the use of Sex. It would at least keep the Starbuck character male and perhaps save the story. Stardoe doesn't cut it for me. The character of Apollo is a whining snivling cry baby. He complains about everything. He blames his father for Zach's death. Well accidents do happen in training I don't care how great a pilot or not Zach was. Moore paterned the show after In Harm's Way. IMHO this is a mistake. if he wanted dysfunction he should have went with the Vietnam era style movies such as Full Metal Jacket. having R Lee Ermey in the cast couldn't have hurt matters either. Another big complaint is the lack of Mechanical Cylons. They are there but in a limited capacity. The new Cylon Raider looks like a cross between Alien and Batman. Remember the Batwing.

[Blade Runner]

I'm not going to dissagree with your opinions of the show because it's what you like or don't like that matters to you. I did see the Original first time round at the age of 14 and very much enjoyed it. 25years on and personally, I prefer the new series because of the depth of the subject matters and the multi-layered personalities of the characters. Sci-Fi has become somewhat stale over the past 10years with the exception of a few so the New series to me is a breath of fresh air.

[Alan]

kingfish said:

He blames his father for Zach's death. Well accidents do happen in training I don't care how great a pilot or not Zach was.

You missed the point. Sometimes accidents are predictable and preventable. Apollo perceived (correctly!) that Zack wasn't really good enough to fly a Viper; he feels (correctly!) that an impartial assessment of Zack's skills would have put him into a safer posting; and thus he concludes (correctly!) that somebody was pulling strings to give Zack a combat job for which he was unqualified.

Whoever pulled those strings got Zack in over his head. Putting people of limited skill into dangerous situations is not an "accident", but it sure can cause one!

His only mistake was assuming that Adama was to blame. Aside from that, he was spot-on. His brother's death was preventable.

[Blade Runner]

Zak would not have been in the position to die like he did if Kara had not passed him on basic flight. Lee now knows thatand so does Commander Adama

[ah-chie]

kingfish said:

... One of the main flaws in the show is the abundant deviation from the original premise. Yes they might be on the same quest as the original Colonials but it gets fuzzy from there.

Being on the "same quest" seems to me to define what an "original premise" is. Yes, the *details* are different, but that isn't what I would define as an original premise. Both shows seem to have the identical original premise (I don't see any deviation really) but have quite a lot of divergent details - that is what separates the new series from the old one and makes it a *new* show. ;D

Reading through the rest of your post, it seems many of your comments centre around sticking points that the new series isn't like the old one. If you don't like what you see in the new series then that is valid enough (can't please everyone), but you should be judging it for what it *is* and not for what it *isn't* IMO.

The other thing I noticed is that some of your comments (re: Apollo's character and the frequency of mechanical cylons) seemed to be based on the mini. The new series delves into those issues and addresses those concerns of yours quite nicely. ;D Characters develop throughout the new series and aren't static; mechanical Cylons are seen in more abundance.

There is one remark that I just don't get -

Sex changes for some of the main cast makes the story hard to follow.

How so?? You think that Starbuck being a woman makes the plots involving her "hard to follow"? Or Boomer being a woman makes that story line "hard to follow"? I just don't get that point at all Could you explain further why their gender change makes the plots hard to follow for you? Thanks!

[kingfish]

Most of the sex changes seem to have been for "Shock Value." "This isn't your father's Battlestar Galactica," mentioned Bonnie Hammer. FYI, I didn't want the same BG of the 70's since we are in the new millennium. To ask for that would mean I am STUCK in the 70's. Moore could have done better since it was he who saved Next generation. Critics hated season 1. Moore managed to put polish on the characters. IMHO he should have passed on Nu galactica for his talents as a writer are wasted here. He is under guidelines, don't plagerize the Larson story. He couldn't give us the big three as male characters because it might have come to close to the intellectual ideas that were in Larson's mind for the original. The Bono Law applies here but at times people can't see the forest for the trees. Universal might own the Logo and characters but they don't own the thoughts, ie intellectual conceptualization that were in larson's brain. To prove my point look at the new Godfather book. mark Weingartener had to GET permission from the Puzo estate to write the book, ie use the characters that were in the original Mario Puzo Godfather.

[ah-chie]

kingfish said:

Most of the sex changes seem to have been for "Shock Value." "This isn't your father's Battlestar Galactica," mentioned Bonnie Hammer. FYI, I didn't want the same BG of the 70's since we are in the new millennium. To ask for that would mean I am STUCK in the 70's. Moore could have done better since it was he who saved Next generation. Critics hated season 1. Moore managed to put polish on the characters. IMHO he should have passed on Nu galactica for his talents as a writer are wasted here. He is under guidelines, don't plagerize the Larson story. He couldn't give us the big three as male characters because it might have come to close to the intellectual ideas that were in Larson's mind for the original. The Bono Law applies here but at times people can't see the forest for the trees. Universal might own the Logo and characters but they don't own the thoughts, ie intellectual conceptualization that were in larson's brain. To prove my point look at the new Godfather book. mark Weingartener had to GET permission from the Puzo estate to write the book, ie use the characters that were in the original Mario Puzo Godfather.

Is this why you find the stories that involve characters who have their gender changed "hard to follow"? I am sorry but I still don't see a connection between a character who is a woman now and the stories that are built around that new character and the above post. Also I don't see where the story arcs around those now female characters are "hard to follow" - they seen pretty straight forward to me.

[Mustex]

kingfish said:

I have been giving this some thought and to say it sucks without a basic intellectual argument is a wee bit immature. ;D

Very true. I am glad your not going to act like Lang.

One of the main flaws in the show is the abundant deviation from the original premise. Yes they might be on the same quest as the original Colonials but it gets fuzzy from there.

The way I see it you can do a remake two ways, be true to the work, or be innovative, and Moore went with the latter. Both can work Harrison's version of "Dune" was fairly true to the original, and worked. Coppola's "The Godfather" took everything straight out of the book, but the subplots he choose to delete were so important to the overall impact the movie quickly sank into mediocrity

On the other hand Lynch innovated with his "Dune" and it sucked, and Moore innovated with his BSG, and it rocked.

Now the journey to the Earth has begun but rather then say that he doesn't know where the planet is William Adama says, "Fear not, I know where it is like the back of my hand."

He was lying. They're not going to Earth.

Sex changes for some of the main cast makes the story hard to follow.

Does seem kind of annoying. Why not just call her "Sheba", and say Starbuck is Cain's son.

Also having some of them as potential Cylons is confusing. Who the hell is real.

This is a way of making the viewer think.

The character of Apollo is a whining snivling cry baby. He complains about everything. He blames his father for Zach's death.

And you wouldn't? Zac's death was Adama's fault, so Adama is blamed. This is like when people call Robert Howard a mama's boy because he took care of his mother when she was sick, as she slowly died over several years, and then committed suicide when she finally died. Wouldn't you be depressed?

Another big complaint is the lack of Mechanical Cylons.

Which the series will provide.

[Alan]

kingfish said:

he [Moore] should have passed on Nu galactica for his talents as a writer are wasted here.

Wasted? This is the most dramatic and complicated sci-fi that I can remember seeing on TV. Regardless whether you like it or not, the intricacy and depth of the story are clear. Not sure how you think that a writer is "wasted" by writing something like this!

Personally I didn't enjoy Die Blechtrommel (The Tin Drum) but I acknowledge that it's a worthy film even if not my cup of tea. You don't necessarily have to enjoy something to recognize its deeper artistic merit.

He is under guidelines, don't plagerize the Larson story. He couldn't give us the big three as male characters because it might have come to close to the intellectual ideas that were in Larson's mind for the original. The Bono Law applies here but at times people can't see the forest for the trees. Universal might own the Logo and characters but they don't own the thoughts, ie intellectual conceptualization that were in larson's brain.

I respectfully disagree with your assumptions. Universal owns the rights to BSG. They could reproduce the original word-for-word and scene-by-scene if they wanted to do it. They could have made all the characters carbon copies of the originals, had they chosen to do so. They can (and do) steal characters, they can (and do) steal plot elements, they can (and do) steal storylines, heck they could directly steal and re-shoot the identical scripts if they wanted to!

Moore wasn't restricted by some bizarre application of copyright law from having the top three characters be men. He didn't do it because he DIDN'T WANT TO. He thought the story was more interesting with President Roslin added and Starbuck as a female, and (personally) I agree with him. It changes the Starbuck/Apollo and Starbuck/Adama relationships in interesting ways, and Laura Roslin adds a balance to the command structure which TOS severely lacked. Even as a child, I was struck by the fact that Adama was always right and the Council of Twelve was always wrong. This show is a bit more complicated.

[kingfish]

You can't plagiarize anybodys work or you get sued. Case close. Universal might own it lock, stock, and barrel but they don't own the ideas/concepts in Larson's mind.

[Chalcedony]

kingfish said:

You can't plagiarize anybodys work or you get sued. Case close. Universal might own it lock, stock, and barrel but they don't own the ideas/concepts in Larson's mind.

Where on earth are you getting this bizarre notion? Clearly not from actual contract law.

When creative talent is under contract to a studio, all material produced during the course of that contract by writers, producers, artists, etc., belongs to the studio, and that technically even includes notes and sketches. Material presented to a studio in a pitch by someone who does not already work for the studio does not belong to the studio unless they option it under a contract.

I've even seen consulting contracts that stipulate that the contents of telephone conversations and emails, inasmuch as they constitute intellectual property pertaining to contract work belong to the contract holder! When a contracted creative leaves a position in the private sector they are usually required to leave behind all of their notes, notebooks, etc. - I can't imagine that the movie industry would be more lax in how they interpret contract law.

S.

P.S. No matter how godlike and amazingly gifted BSG writers are, I seriously doubt that they are trying to use their special super powers to get ideas out of Glen Larson's mind, and everything that Glen Larson's mind put into material form belongs to the studio. THAT, punklin', is "case close."

[kingfish]

The Bono Law:


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Bono_Copyright_Term_Extension_Act

[Chalcedony]

Silly rabbit, copyright is held by the studio. The studio owns it all. Get it?

I'll try again:

Copyright held by studio, not Larson.
Studio say "Annual copyright renewal of all IP now ok?"
And big lawyer say "OK boss."
Every year this happen.
Every studio boss big happy!
They own it all. Yay!
But fans who think Glen Larson is like captive Drew Barrymore in Firestarter are sad.
They say: Sonny Bono means nono!
And then they look silly.
Because copyright is held by studio.
Studio owns BSG and can sell to anyone it likes, even crazy porn producers in Palo Alto, so just count your fucking blessings.

Sonny Bono even less relevant than was after Cher dumped his ass. Understand?

S.

[ah-chie]

If Universal holds the rights to the television production of BSG then they can do what they want with the story -they are the legal owners of everything to do with the story.

True they can't do anything that would injure the reputation of Mr. Larson, but even if he didn't like all the changes, he would have a hard time arguing in court that a successful commercial endeavour somehow sullied his reputation and was injurious to his career as a writer etc. (which is the only tactic he could take to be successful in a lawsuit).

Ideas have to be written down or at least recorded/witnessed come under the protection of copyright I would assume - you can't just say "I was thinking of that!" - so whatever is "in Larson's mind" is irrelevant to this discussion. If Universal own the rights it *owns* the rights - period!

Plagiarizing someone's work is when you take it from the *legal* owners of it without credit or payment - Universal was never in danger of doing that as they are the legal owners of the rights to the material.

[Chalcedony]

Ah-Chie is right.

Also, I did a quick look at an article on CNN. It looks like Larson retains the movie rights because that kind of project was never on the table when he was doing BSG at Universal. But Universal can do anything it wants to do with any and all of the material produced that had to do with BSG the television show.

Which basically leaves Larson waiting for someone who want to see Richard Hatch in tight pants again to pony up the money for a continuation film.

Now, personally, I would pay at least matinee prices to see Richard Hatch in tight pants again. So you all can have my vote.

That article had an interview with Hatch. Apparently he lives in a "small apartment littered with "Battlestar" paraphernalia, including a lunchbox, posters and videos."

I find that to be kind of depressing. If all of TOS fans were so hell-bent on supporting Richard Hatch as all that, they should buy the guy a nice split level ranch, or get him a nice gig somewhere teaching acting or something. He's still a handsome guy and it looks like he's even become a better actor than he was in the 70s.

S.

Maybe I should start a petition... Take out an ad in Variety... Write an irate web log... Make a web page, www.committeetorelectrichardhatchstightpants.com



I will freely admit that none of the actors on TNS are this sexay except for maybe Helo and Crashdown.