Witch hunts?

[Daliden]

caseOrange said:

i agree. Hate to nitpick, but using the term "witch hunt" without a believable story behind it that's in context with BSG is just a glaring hole.

So, you are in fact saying that you believe they are actually speaking English?

[caseOrange]

Daliden said:

So, you are in fact saying that you believe they are actually speaking English?

Sounds like English to me. If it was anything else, i wouldn't understand much of it. i don't see what difference it makes if they are really speaking another language or not. If they called witches "booblahs" and hunts "sparklenarb", then tell me a little about the first "booblah sparklenarb" within the Colonies.

Perhaps i should've wrote "...without a believable story behind it that's in context with BSG history is just a glaring hole". Or, more specifically, in context with Colonial history. Just give me a reason to believe there were once witches in the colonies who were hunted.

[Cosmic Superchunk]

Daliden said:

So, you are in fact saying that you believe they are actually speaking English?

Uh.....yeah, otherwise we'd be reading subtitles on each episode. ;D

[Cosmic Superchunk]

caseOrange said:

Just give me a reason to believe there were once witches in the colonies who were hunted.

Witchcraft has been a part of human history since the beginning of time. Shamans who practiced magic, cast spells, etc.. Practices that many in our so-called modern society would consider a form of witchcraft. The possibility exists that in some part of the history of the 12 colonies, there may have been people who where persecuted for their beliefs or way of life and called witches. As tends to happen in witch-hunts, innocents are harassed and in some cases accused and convicted (as happened during the Spanish Inquisition, Salem Witch Trials, etc.) President and Commander Adama used the term witch-hunt to refer to the searching out and deliberate harassment of those innocents who may be erroneously suspected as being Cylon collaborators.

[caseOrange]

Cosmic said:

The possibility exists that in some part of the history of the 12 colonies, there may have been people who where persecuted for their beliefs or way of life and called witches.

Actually, when i watched the episode, the mention of witch hunts didn't even phase me; but once Brazedowl pointed it out, i got to thinking on it.

For the above to be true, the term "witch hunt", when it was used in relation to 1600s Salem, was a term that was long gone from our vernacular, but was resurrected from our days in the Kobolian System to describe what was happening at the time. And that's fine--it's a twist of reality, but that's what science fiction is. Now if only they would have made some mention of this, it would've made all the difference.

ADAMA to HADRIAN: "This reminds me of when they hunted witches on Picon 300 yahren...uh, years ago"

OK--they had people they called witches and they hunted them. It's not an out-of-place description for the Tribunal.

And as far as all the arguments that the Colonials have so much in common with us: Earthlings didn't create Cylons then go to war with them; we don't have advanced space travel, certainly not to the point where we can light up big stogies on the space shuttle; we haven't developed a defense system for a hemisphere, much less 12 planets; and we still keep the corners on our books and papers. There are differences in our histories. If witch hunts are something we share historically, that's fine. But they should've qualified it in some way.

(BTW Daliden, that's a pretty sexy avatar of Boomer. Is she saying "witch hunt"?) ;D

[Cosmic Superchunk]

caseOrange said:

And as far as all the arguments that the Colonials have so much in common with us: Earthlings didn't create Cylons then go to war with them; we don't have advanced space travel, certainly not to the point where we can light up big stogies on the space shuttle; we haven't developed a defense system for a hemisphere, much less 12 planets; and we still keep the corners on our books and papers. There are differences in our histories.

Yeah, those are technological acheivements that have surpassed us, but they still remain identifiable to us. Their clothing looks like ours. Their guns look like our guns, not flashlights or TV remotes. They use paper and pens, wear eye glasses, play cards, smoke, watch TV, use toothbrushes, use flashlights, have lamps in their rooms, collect pictures of loved ones and I'm sure they still wipe their behinds with toilet paper. They are more similar to us in their social and military structure than any other Sci-Fi series dealing with non-Terran humans.

[caseOrange]

Cosmic said:

Yeah, those are technological acheivements that have surpassed us, but they still remain identifiable to us. Their clothing looks like ours. Their guns look like our guns, not flashlights or TV remotes. They use paper and pens, wear eye glasses, play cards, smoke, watch TV, use toothbrushes, use flashlights, have lamps in their rooms, collect pictures of loved ones and I'm sure they still wipe their behinds with toilet paper. They are more similar to us in their social and military structure than any other Sci-Fi series dealing with non-Terran humans.

Agreed. We could go back and forth on this. Maybe RDM will use Season 2 (i'm so glad i can say that confidently now) to give us some more background about life in the Colonies before the Cylon attack (with minimum flashbacks, hopefully--don't want to get too BSG80-ish) which will answer some of my questions.

Truce.

[Brazedowl]

Ya know I totaly forgot about this thread once I got blasted for suggesting it in the beginning. Thanks for making me feel less crazy C.O.

[Daliden]

caseOrange said:

Sounds like English to me. If it was anything else, i wouldn't understand much of it. i don't see what difference it makes if they are really speaking another language or not. If they called witches "booblahs" and hunts "sparklenarb", then tell me a little about the first "booblah sparklenarb" within the Colonies.

In the old movies about WW II the Germans usually spoke English, although they did it in a German accent. In the reality of the movie they were, of course, speaking German.

In Star Trek they have the universal translator, and all the aliens are supposed to be speaking their own languages, with the universal translators then translating everything. However, the aliens just speak English.

Perhaps i should've wrote "...without a believable story behind it that's in context with BSG history is just a glaring hole". Or, more specifically, in context with Colonial history. Just give me a reason to believe there were once witches in the colonies who were hunted.

"Witch hunt" is an idiom. The actual words that form it are not important, the meaning of the phrase is. To me it seems obvious that just like in those old war movies, the Galactica people speak a different language, but it's "dubbed" in English for our ease. And when you translate one language to another, you don't translate the words, you translate the meanings.

So, in the "original" language, the idiom might have nothing to do with witches. It could stem from something like the communist hunts during the McCarthy era, or something completely different.

What is important is that the meaning comes through.

What's more, I would absolutely abhor mini infodumps in the style of "As you know, Bob, booblahs were heinously persecuted during the later parts of Colonial Middle Ages, and this reminds me of that" . . .

[toaster]

As a welsh speaker, I can assure you all that "Fshiyedws" is not, in fact, a heinous swear word. Although I wish it was. Welsh has far too few of those...

With regards to the similarities between modern western earth culture and BSG, it's deliberately similar. Either we're going to accept that, or it will cause problems for us.

But to address the "witch hunt" phrase, I believe it refers to a mentality.

The point when fear overtakes and you'll accuse and convict anyone in order to allieviate that fear. This mob mentality has been previously feared on the Galactica (why they didn't announce that cylons had human forms originally) and has occurred on earth many, many times, *not* just during the witch hunts.

True, "witch hunt" does refer to a specific period of our history. But "witch" could also be considered a generic term for "culprit" or "evil person". In this case Cylon.

While it may be far-fetched to assume that the 12 Colonies have specifically experienced witch hunts for the same reasons as Europe and America did, I *don't* think it's far-fetched to think that there are parts of their history that involve mob-mentalities and the pathological search and persecution of vaguely defined groups.

The Colonials are, after all, humans and are likely to have similar issues and conflicts in their history.

In this case, "witch" is an idiomatic term for "the bad guy". The best translation into english for the audience.

To be clear, none of the similarities bother me at all. But if you want to nit-pick, I'd be much more confused by the ties guys wear. Isn't the tie such a surreal invention? Why would anyone have invented it twice?