Religion in BSG

[Spassvogel]

Maybe this is their god:

[Chalcedony]

broken boxes, spass.

[Blade Runner]

Is that an ad, because I cant see nothing

[Spassvogel]

Weird, it displays on my computer just fine.

Here's the link in text form

www.toymania.com/334archives/battlestar/leader.jpg

[Blade Runner]

nope, still dosnt work

[Chalcedony]

It's some kind of puppet that looks like a cross between a lizard and a morel mushroom.

[Starbuck]

Spassvogel said:

Weird, it displays on my computer just fine.

Here's the link in text form

www.toymania.com/334archives/battlestar/leader.jpg

This is what I get:

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /334archives/battlestar/leader.jpg on this server.

[Starbuck]

What if :

Nature creates Man, Man creates God, Man creates Cylons, Cylons kills man ... What's left ? ... the God that man created.

[Spassvogel]

Ahrhghgh, maybe the website that hosts it doesn't allow remote linking...it's odd that the links and the pics work fine on my computer, though.

Anyway, I'll try hosting it in my webspace...bleah. It's an action figure of the Imperious Leader from the original series. We only saw him a couple times. He was voiced by Patrick McNee (also Count Iblis and the guy who did the opening monologue in TOS "There are those who believe...etc"

[Chalcedony]

Like I said - totally looks like a cross between a morel mushroom and a lizard, nu?

I'm thinking about getting TOS dvd set, I haven't seen an ep from it in like, 20 years. More than, probably. Except I'm pretty sure that now that I'm 31 it would driv me bonkererererers.

S.

[Spassvogel]

I watched them they were on sci-fi channel once in a while. I actually was surprised that for all the cheese (and yes, there was some) there was also a lot of sophistication at times. (I think the minor characters like Cassiopiea who started off as a prostitute and ended up a nurse was kinda cool, for example).

But mostly, I think that some of TOS plots could be placed in a TV cop show, and work just as well. (like the Caribdys episode).

Spass

[caseOrange]

OK...just trying a compendium here. So what we've got so far is this:

• There is an underlying religious theme in TNS. RDM confirms this.
• The Colonials have a polytheistic system of religion modeled off of the Greek Pantheon, which could be modeled off of the 12 Patriarchs of Judaism. Either way, they use the Greek names.
• The Cylons are monotheistic, as far as we know, mimicking either Christianity, Judaism or Islam.
• Sometime between the time they were created and put into use by Humanity, and the beginning of the 1st Cylon War, they formed a consciousness.
• Sometime between the time they formed a consciousness and the beginning of the current Cylon war they began to believe in, or were actually visited upon by something they are calling God.
• The Cylons believe they have been chosen, or sent, by their God to destroy Mankind.

Question 1: How did the Cylons form a consciousness? Was it a natural evolution of A.I.? Or did the designer(s) actually build it into them?

Which leads to Question 1a: Who exactly did design the Cylons?

Question 2: Which monotheistic religion are the Cylons mimicking? Or is it one that they created independently of traditional concepts of monotheism?

IMHO, i think the monotheistic tenets they are following are important, if for nothing else because it may reveal other major Cylon players that the Colonials will have to contend with.

For example, if it is Islam, who is their Mohammed? If it is Christianity, which one? Protestant or Catholic? Either one has Jesus in it, but Catholicism has the Three-In-One Deity, also. Protestantism is patriarchal and Catholicism is matriarchal. If it is Judaism (truly monotheistic), then are we to assume that the 12 Cylon models are representative of the 12 Patriarchs? If so, then Wylden may be on to something.

[Alan]

caseOrange said:

Question 2: Which monotheistic religion are the Cylons mimicking? Or is it one that they created independently of traditional concepts of monotheism?

It doesn't closely mimic any terrestrial religion I can think of.

We know from the episode "33" their god gives them "commandments"; this has an old-testament ring to it. However the specific commandment that Six mentions ("procreation is one of God's commandments") isn't one of the ten Judeo/Christian commandments.

We know (from "Secrets and Lies") that "suicide is a mortal sin." The concept of mortal sin is pretty specific. Does any religion have that concept except the Catholics?

Some of Leoben Conoy's comments in "Flesh and Bone" seem to mirror some of the oriental religions. The suggestion that every person is God, for example. Six's comment that "God is Love" is likewise a bit new-agey.

I can't think of a single earthly religion that would match all these pieces together; it seems more likely that Moore has melded a lot of religious concepts together to create something new.

[caseOrange]

Alan said:

We know from the episode "33" their god gives them "commandments"; this has an old-testament ring to it. However the specific commandment that Six mentions ("procreation is one of God's commandments") isn't one of the ten Judeo/Christian commandments.

Even though it's not one of the Ten Commandments, God does say to Adam and Eve in Genesis, "Be fruitful and multiply". This could be interpreted as a "commandment".

That aside for now, i'm guessing we're all still on board when it comes to the Cylons being monotheistic. And since it seems the Cylon religion is going to be given to us in pieces, we'll just have to flesh out the details as they become available.

That being said, i guess the big philosophical question that Moore may have to answer in time is: How did the Cylons, being only exposed to the polytheism of the Colonials, come to believe in a monotheistic religion? Perhaps it was to directly contrast the Colonial religion?

Maybe this question can be answered better by history than conjecture.

[Ioraptor]

That being said, i guess the big philosophical question that Moore may have to answer in time is: How did the Cylons, being only exposed to the polytheism of the Colonials, come to believe in a monotheistic religion? Perhaps it was to directly contrast the Colonial religion?

Maybe this question can be answered better by history than conjecture.

Yes, thats a right on approach, what human cultures transitioned from polytheism to monotheism, and why did they do it?

The old testament jewish people seem to be a fine example. If you trace the lineage of Yahweh you find out he was a minor god of the Babylonian pantheon. Some kind of desert or war god. Somehow he was transformed into THE GOD. That transition must have occured for interesting reasons.

So....in the old testament the jewish tribes flee their servitude in Egypt for the wilderness. Were they worshipping only one god at this point? Remember, there is a story that Moses gets pissed off when he discovers his people worshipping another god.

The Cylons flee/retreat from the Colonies and enter the wilderness of space. Something happens to them in the wilderness. They evolve and 'find god'. Are they modeling that god after one acquired from the Colonial pantheon. Is it something different?

In the desert the tribes are faced with hardship and terrible challenges to survival. God visits their leader and gives him commandments and prophecy. They abandon the old gods and focus on Yahweh. Did Yahweh possess some attributes that lent themselves to the tribes need? These people are dispossed and trapped on the outskirts of good agricultural land. Does accepting an old 'war god' as the 'only god' serve their need?

The commandments seem like good guidelines for keeping a society functioning. Especially a society faced with aggresion and lacking resources. Having a god that says its okay to attack people and take their land seem pretty pragmatic also..... Are the Cylons responding to the environmental conditions in their choice of religion?

Eventually the hardened tribes move into the neighboring agricultural lands and conquer a good part of the population; killing many and driving others away.
God HELPS them to do this.

The Cylons return to the Colonies and destroy humanity. They seize the planets and resources.
Is their god helping them?