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Post by MHall on Mar 29, 2005 18:45:22 GMT -5
Unprovable "fact": There are only 12 models of humanoid Cylons. What we were actually told (but still isn't fact): SIX: Gaius, I can't die. When this body is destroyed, my memory, my consciousness will be transmitted to a new one. I'll just wake up somewhere else in an identical body. BALTAR: You mean there's more out there like you? SIX: There are 12 models. I'm Number Six. Note that Six is saying "There are 12 models like me," with an implicit "like me." And then there was the note, probably left by Baltar, so no new information there. Over on sciffy I wrote: And Baron_von_Richoven replied: So, yes, it is possible that Six meant there are 12 types of Sixes. If so, then presumably the 12 Sixes map to either the 12 gods in the Greek Pantheon and/or the 12 signs of the Zodiac. Although I believe the mapping is to Greek gods, I would be amused if it turned out that the Cylons take astrology dead so seriously that they become the embodiment of the sign under which they were "born." So, there may be more than 12 humanoid Cylon models.
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Post by MHall on Mar 23, 2005 18:55:34 GMT -5
I'll go even farther than you do. I don't know that the humanoid Cylons believe it. All I know is that they've claimed that that's the case when speaking to the Colonials. Yeah, I also noticed my mistake when I was rereading my post. Good catch.
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Post by MHall on Mar 23, 2005 18:53:44 GMT -5
If you cremated a tissue sample from Cheney's arm, leg, butt, even stomach or chest, you'd find no evidence of the pacemaker. Are you sure? You think the coating on a pacemaker does not leak any molecules?
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Post by MHall on Mar 23, 2005 9:02:24 GMT -5
Although this is more of a problem over on scifi.com, I see a lot of people taking unseen things from the show as absolute facts, which they will not leave open to dispute. I suggest this is dangerous, and I suggest the writers are intentionally trying to mislead the viewers in some spots. Here are some examples of dangerous assumptions:
(SPOILERS through episode 10...)
* "Boomer planted the explosives in the water tank." We did not see this. Ron Moore said in commentary that there are other as yet unrevealed Cylon agents on board.
* "No human can survive the pressures in the water tank." This is from a deleted scene, but even taking it as gospel, if the artificial gravity were lowered it would not be true. In any case, we do not know that a humanoid Cylon went into the tank.
* "Humanoid Cylons have consciousness transfer capabilities." Humanoid Cylons believe they have consciousness transfer capabilities. Almost. They don't always seem so sure, and I have posted an alternate mechanism that would fool them into thinking this exists. You can't be sure if they can't be sure. In any case, we have never seen a "reincarnated" Cylon with the memories of the dead one.
* "Humanoid Cylons think with silica relays." You believe this because the humanoid Cylons believe it. Why do they believe it? Because the chrome toasters told them so, most likely. Would you believe whatever a chrome toaster says?
* "Humanoid Cylons must have silica relays, because their cognition and health is affected by Ragnar radiation." Finally! This is the first thing about which there has been any hard evidence: Leoben at Ragnar and Baltar's Cylon detector. However, Leoben's symptoms could be explained in some other ways. His symptoms are identical to a nerve agent like Sarin, which causes confusion, difficulty breathing, etc. His symptoms are also similar to a human who has received a massive fatal radiation dose. Hmmm.
* "Synthetic substances upon cremation PROVE they are Cylons!" And a second piece of hard evidence! Yes, there are synthetic substances found upon cremation of a humanoid Cylon. Unfortunately, all you have proved is that American Vice President Dick Cheney is a Cylon. He has a pacemaker, which is built from synthetic substances.
* "Humanoid Cylons possess superhuman powers of surviving huge pressures underwater and having superhuman speed, strength, and endurance." We have never seen a humanoid Cylon survive huge water pressures. Sharon even gives you a possible explanation for the rest: "Adrenaline!!!" Leoben's broken handcuffs may be the only evidence of behavior beyond that of a drugged up human, and because Cylons have access to any part of Galactica, including handcuff and weapons lockers, it's weak evidence.
* "Humanoid Cylons glow during sex, so they are artificial." Some shrimp also emit bioluminesence during sex, but they are not artificial. Spine-glowing proves that humanoid Cylons are not unaltered humans, only.
* "Humanoid Cylons are not humans." If Caprica Boomer is pregnant by a human, then she is human, by definition pretty much. (However, this remains to be seen.) A surgically altered human, like Dick Cheney with his pacemaker, is still human.
* "It must be true, because internal Six said such-n-such." The writers are careful to keep "Baltar is bonkers" as a possible explanation; you cannot trust what she says even if she is real.
* "All Sixes have the same exact personality, including Shelly Godfrey." Someone really posted that. You are assuming that when you see the same actress, you are seeing the same individual on the show with the same personality. This is almost hardwired into your psychology, so fight the temptation to lump them together!
* "And there has only ever been one Boomer on Galactica." Ditto to the above. There is evidence that this is not true.
So, I advise caution. Everything may not be as it seems.
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Post by MHall on Mar 26, 2005 8:36:11 GMT -5
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Post by MHall on Mar 20, 2005 20:30:02 GMT -5
Are you guys understanding me? I'm asking if Kobol could be Earth at a different point in time. So, the path from Kobol to "Earth" would be through time.
How about this... Kobol is our Earth in the future. The Cylon plan is to kill all humans before they ever existed, because that's the only way to be sure they got them all. So they need to go back in time before anything remotely like humans existed and rain nukes. They use the humans to help them figure out how to go back in time, perhaps using an artifact on Kobol. Then they jump 65 million years back in time, find the same planet, Earth aka Kobol, and drop nukes and/or a single huge asteroid onto Earth. This was the mass extinction event that killed the dinosaurs.
God creates dinosaurs, God destroys dinosaurs, God creates Man, Man destroys God, Man creates Cylons, Cylons destroy dinosaurs, and thus Cylons create Man (oops!) and Cylons are God (oh, maybe that's the plan.)
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Post by MHall on Mar 20, 2005 18:31:02 GMT -5
I'm breaking this into a new post, because there will be a SPOILER. (Minor?) SPOILER for Episode 12 (Kobol's Last Gleaming part 1)... The first few seconds that we see Kobol, the continent looks remarkably like Africa. Specifically, Africa from 90 or 100 million years in the past. Try the Pangea animation at this webpage: scotese webpage and drag your mouse until 90 or 100. Note that the light blue areas are underwater. At that time Madagascar+India was still nearly attached to Africa and was mostly underwater. The other thing that makes me suspicious is that South America and Antarctica would be just barely out of the picture frame (90 or 100 million years ago.) Also Crashdown asks, "Could this be Earth?"
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Post by MHall on Mar 20, 2005 18:20:39 GMT -5
Could Kobol be Earth?
If so, is it ancient Earth, future Earth, or alternate Earth?
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Post by MHall on Mar 16, 2005 8:28:57 GMT -5
From Episode 9, Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down:
SIX: Have you read the Pythian prophecy, Gaius? BALTAR: Not since the sixth grade. I can't say ancient history is my favorite subject. SIX: You should have paid closer attention, hmm? BALTAR: To what? SIX: All of this has happened before. All of this will happen again. BALTAR: Everyone knows that verse. What are you getting at?
In an earlier scene...
ELOSHA: You're kidding me, right? You read Pythia and now you're having me on. ROSLIN: No. Who is Pythia?
How do you explain that Roslin doesn't know who Pythia is, while Baltar implies it is taught as ancient history in sixth grade?
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Post by MHall on Mar 16, 2005 18:07:45 GMT -5
Yes, I am assuming that Cylons are able to replicate (not clone) living humans, exactly. IF that is true, THEN every humanoid Cylon can actually be just as human as a human with a pacemaker. I've already got 2 threads going in the Cylon forum, so I'll stop talking about it here.
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Post by MHall on Mar 16, 2005 16:41:31 GMT -5
Spoiler for episode 12: (comment on what I said before, but it is a SPOILER!) I wrote: "20% of those who shoot themselves in suicide attempts survive."
I just happened to think... what if Sharon succeeded in killing herself? Could the Cylons have taken the body and replaced her with another Sharon, complete cheek wound? Yes, of course, they could have. This makes even me dizzy.
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Post by MHall on Mar 16, 2005 15:31:21 GMT -5
Helo's lack of endurance, while still being a "Cylon," is explained by my theory. There are two possibilities:
1) Helo is an original human, so he lacks the spinal silica strand implants, which in "Cylons" do nothing more than excrete adrenaline when they detect stress chemicals, glow when they detect sex chemicals, excrete neurochemicals when they detect radiation, and encode an ID tag. However, there are copies of Helo running around with these implants, even though they too are human, so Helo is one of the 12 models.
2) Helo believes he is a Cylon, and he is just acting like a dumb human for Sharon, when in fact he is actually a dumb human. Sharon, on the other hand, is a human whom the "Cylons" are trying to convince is a Cylon. They gave her the implants if she didn't already have them, and now they are seeing if she can be trusted yet. Apparently not. But no problem, Helo is there to keep an eye on her and make sure she doesn't escape.
I lean much more towards the first theory, but it's hard to say with these tricky "Cylons."
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Post by MHall on Mar 16, 2005 0:11:02 GMT -5
The following is just a theory, so it's not a spoiler, but it's true... At the end of episode 11, Sharon is happy as can be. At the start of episode 12, this is not the case. This is not the same Sharon as was in episodes 8-11. Episode 12 Sharon is restored backup copy of the Sharon from the end of episode 7. So this Sharon had a total blackout of episodes 8-11, because she did not exist yet, plus more blackouts before. Spoiler for episode 12: 20% of those who shoot themselves in suicide attempts survive.
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Post by MHall on Mar 15, 2005 21:24:28 GMT -5
They are both pregnant, with identical twins, one each. (Seriously, that's my best guess.)
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Post by MHall on Mar 14, 2005 17:43:35 GMT -5
Personallly I think that Caprica Sharon deserves her own name not sure what it should be yet. Any suggestions? No. One Caprica Sharon is identical to one Galactica Sharon. I mean, one is an identical copy of the other made "between" episodes 1 and 2. They are both Sharon from the mini-series. However, other "Sharons" are not Sharon. That is, they never grew up on Troy or served on Galactica before the middle of the season. But both those other Sharons did. So, I was a bit confused in my long post above, but I finally cracked the mystery. It all makes sense now. Doesn't it?
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