Bastille Day to Colonial Day: Adjusting Views

[ashoka1]

I was upset after watching Colonial day. After Bastille
Day, I was excited to see a character who held similar
beliefs to myself.

I was excited at the prospect of having an election. A
debate. One that could prove to be more fruitful than
what currently passes for debate on news channels.

But, after watching Colonial Day, I felt a bit
dissapointed. I'd watched all of the main characters
engaged in actions I found disgusting.

I saw Laura Rosalyn using the military as a political tool.

I saw Zarek possibly being the first to use
violence. If he was wronged first, he would have
justification. He wasn't. If it turns out that he did place
the hit unprovoked... I'm sickened.

I saw Lee Adama swearing allegiance to the 'articles of
Kobol' on Bastille Day, then stopping people from
hearing Zarek's speech on Colonial Day.
Note: What makes this awful is that this happened
before he suspected Zarek in the assasination.

I saw Commander Adama declare that the military
would never accept Zarek, even if elected. A slap to the
very civilization he claims to be defending.

I saw an investigation being carried out, not to find the
truth, but to dig up dirt on a man. The investigation was
carried out by Rosalyn supporter Apollo and Zarek
would-be-assasin Starbuck. So much for bias.

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But then I read this:

"Our characters are living, breathing people with all the emotional complexity and contradictions present in quality dramas like The West Wing or The Sopranos. In this way, we hope to challenge our audience in ways that other genre pieces do not. We want the audience to connect with the characters of Galactica as people. Our characters are not super-heroes. They are not an elite. They are everyday people caught up in an enormous cataclysm and trying to survive it as best they can."

Ron D. Moore

And then it clicked.

I was looking at this show from the wrong lens.
I wanted to see my hero Tom Zarek fight the odds, rally his troops with principle to fight power.
I wanted Laura to talk to Tom, to understand his views.
I wanted Commander Adama to realize that there wouldn't be a military without citizens who worked their asses off day in and day out to foot the bill.

In reality, however... we may never know for sure 'who
started it'. And there are no teachers to seperate us
when we fight.

How can I expect Tom Zarek to believe in an election
system when it's run by the very people who want him
dead?

How can I expect Laura Rosalyn be humiliated by a man
she considers a manipulative murderer?

How can I expect Lee to recognize his hypocrisy when
day in and day out, he's worried about dying.

I shouldn't expect Commander Adama to be the wise
man. He craves power. He didn't give it to Rosalyn until
she blackmailed him.

I now see this show like I see 'The Sopranos'. The
characters are greedy Pigs...
They don't work for their communities, they work for
themsleves.
Yet, I still watch.
Not because I support what they do, but because I
want to see a situation presented.
I want to see how Tony Soprano reacted... then I want
to think about how I would react.

BattleStar is the same kind of show. It's wrong to
support Tony Soprano 100%.
No one would say that if they were a great man, they would be like Tony Soprano.
By the same token, it's wrong to claim Tom Zarek as the
symbol of revolution, Rosalyn as the symbol of Doves,
Commander Adama as the symbol of wisdom.

These are characters who frack up. They take a side and
they fight for that side regardless of morality or justice.

So, I'm going to stop worshipping the characters.
I'm going to sit back and observe. What wrong did they
commit? Was there a choice? How would I have acted?

As long as this show inspires me to think about things
that matter, I'll keep watching.

[The Godfather]

I'm not sure I agree with you but I admit openly that from the start I'm coming at this from a different angle. From the get-go I've seen Zarek as someone who claims to be for the people but is instead fighting purely and merely for himself and for his own gains. He's a freedom fighter to those who claim oppression but in the course of the show we see that the ones he defends are prisoners who can hardly claim oppression. The man just feels snaky to me.

I think Apollo had good reason to be suspicious- he's the one that figured out that Zarek who professes to be for the people would have liked to have the people whom he says he is protecting slaughtered because such an action would have damaged the government allowing him a foothold. This wasn't done for the people- they'd have been dead- the prisoners anyhow- but for himself. Their deaths would have been collateral in his plan.

Zarek demanded free elections but the scene that played out in Colonial Day leaves little doubt in my mind that that too was a setup and that the two leaders who instantly supported him had bene informed in advance that they would be asked too. Political capital and now payback. Zarek isn't so much the outsider freedom fighter he claims but just another politician- he leaves someone else to do his dirty work(killing the gunman) but manages even admist suspicion to keep his hands clean.

It was a dirty political fight and the President acted as she saw was the only way to survive. Zarek's election would have set off a cataclsymic change of events that likely would have crippled the entire fleet.

So I understand where you're coming from when you say you want to step back and not "admire" these characters but I just don't think in this matter that I concur with you. These are not bad people(save in my mind Zarek and Tigh's wife), they're people surviving. They do good and bad things but they're actively working for the survival of the human species- I just can't say I believe that about Zarek.

-Shawn

[ashoka1]

He's a freedom fighter to those who claim oppression but in the course of the show we see that the ones he defends are prisoners who can hardly claim oppression. The man just feels snaky to me.

Wait a minute! The reason he's defending people in
prison is because that's where the government put him
for 20 years. In his civilian life he was a proven freedom fighter.

Billy Keikeya actually called Tom Zarek a freedom fighter.
Billy and Duala had an exchange about this.
Duala claimed that Tom Zarek was a butcher who
planted a bomb at a government building.
Billy fired back that the governement in Sagitarian had
been opressing the people for years...
that Zarek was a prisoner of conscience.
So his credentials as a 'freedom fighter' aren't fantasy.

Can you imagine what he experienced in all those years
in jail? And remember something, as far as we can tell,
conditions on the Astral Queen were said to be
appaling. There was a water shortage, prisoners were
treated like animals(remember what the guard said
earlier). How could he not defend their interests?

These prisoners weren't the baddest of the bad.
According to Apollo, most were up for parole.

I think Apollo had good reason to be suspicious- he's the one that figured out that Zarek who professes to be for the people would have liked to have the people whom he says he is protecting slaughtered because such an action would have damaged the government allowing him a foothold. This wasn't done for the people- they'd have been dead- the prisoners anyhow- but for himself. Their deaths would have been collateral in his plan.

Apollo's got no right to be 'calling out' people.
He's abandoned and fired on civilians.
He didn't mind sacrificing his own people and shooting at them to further his own chances of survival.

Now all of a sudden, Tom Zarek is held to a different
standard. To Zarek, the unjust government and Cylon's
are alike. They're both the enemies. In fact, wasn't his
strategy effective? If the prisoners didn't rebel, there
wouldn't be elections. Commander Adama would have
forced them into slave-labour. Instead, they got daily
meals, their own organization. In return, the prisoners
gave up their weapons.

Zarek demanded free elections but the scene that played out in Colonial Day leaves little doubt in my mind that that too was a setup and that the two leaders who instantly supported him had bene informed in advance that they would be asked too. Political capital and now payback.

Excuse me... if he was using violence, you would
complain. Now that he asks people for support, he's a
crooked politician!. Of course he made deals with
them!. Everyone makes deals in politics!. In fact,
Rosalyn did the same too.

Zarek isn't so much the outsider freedom fighter he claims but just another politician- he leaves someone else to do his dirty work(killing the gunman) but manages even admist suspicion to keep his hands clean.

First, you conveniently forget the sins of the Colonials.
It was Laura Rosalyn who tried to have Tom Zarek
assasinated first. Tom Zarek asked for open elections,
and Rosalyn sent in the military(against Commander
Adama's wishes) to kill Tom Zarek.

And second, there's no proof that Tom Zarek actually
put out the hit. I accept that it's your gut feeling, but as
you said, we come from different perspectives... so I'm
willing to leave him innocent until proven guilty.

It was a dirty political fight and the President acted as she saw was the only way to survive. Zarek's election would have set off a cataclsymic change of events that likely would have crippled the entire fleet.

The problem is that the 'president' has been acting how
she likes. She's got cronnies like Starbuck and Apollo
who are more interested in framing Zarek than getting
to the truth. Heard of that quote: "All the president's
men". Starbuck and Apollo are Rosalyn's campaign workers...
who now handle the investigation into the plot.

Any sane person would tell you, when you discover an
assasination plot, you don't let the target's friends
handle the interrogation. Instead of finding impartial
investigators, Rosalyn oredered Apollo and Starbuck to
get dirt on Zarek.

They do good and bad things but they're actively working for the survival of the human species- I just can't say I believe that about Zarek.

She ordered a hit on Zarek, then is offended
when he supposedly returns the favour(allegedly).
Every monster from Hitler to Stalin to Pinochet has used
that same excuse... "The end justifies the means".
Hitler was beloved by his own people. He was elected too for god sakes.

This doesn't excuse using the military as a political tool.
It doesn't excuse the military waging war on a
candidate.

If Zarek is guilty of the crime, he should be punished.
But until the evidence is presented... I continue to reserve judgment.
President Rosalyn has already disgraced herself. She's
alienated the man who has supposedly been running
the colonies. The former vice presidential candidate
walked away from her in disgust at her behaviour.

[The Godfather]

It astonishes me that you're comparing the President precautionary measures(and by the way her willingness to let him have the floor at ALL) with Hitler and such and yet giving Zarek a free pass. I don't consider blowing up a government building with innocent workers just carrying on their duties to be the actions of a freedom fighter- I see a terrorist rationalizing violence and I believe prison is due to him.

-Shawn

[Blue Banrigh]

"The end justifies the means"

Funny how you mention that. Zarek blew up a government building for his cause, then staged a mutiny and took hostages.

Okay, so the conditions aboard the Astral Queen weren't made for long term living, but how many ships in the fleet were? It's 49,000 people to 60 ships.

He's not a saint, he used violence to get his point across. Roslin mentioned he was offered a full pardon by President Adar if he would stop using violence as a means of getting his point across. He refused.

And he didn't exactly deny it when Lee said he that all he wanted was to go out in a blaze of glory.

[sometime]

Ashoka, I think your points are fairly valid. Zarek is by no means a freedom fighter, and the rest of the authority in power don't really believe in democracy unless it flows along whatever motivations they have. However, Roslyn's and Adama's motives are probably quite altruistic, ie the survival of humanity at any cost, with democratic values and the rest of the trappings of civilisation a 2nd tier priority. Who can blame them? Survival comes first.

"Help help we're under attack! Let's vote!"

Once the danger of summary extinction diminishes, it'll be a true test to see if those in power are prepared to accomodate dissenting views, eg "Earth is a fable! Let's find some asteroid to hide on and settle."

[ashoka1]

The facts are the facts.

We haven't seen Zarek, unless it's in a cryptic situation.
Everything surrounding him is implied, second-hand
evidence, and hearsay.

Whereas, we've seen Rosalyn and the gang in action.

I think we can all agree on that point. (Quantitative)
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Where we'll obviously disagree... is upon the value
of their actions (Qualitative). These are arguments of
passion based on our personal experiences.

I'm from DR Congo where our president Patrice
Lumumba was assassinated for having views contrary
to those of the rich land-owners and their military
cronnies. There was peaceful protest but it didn't work.

He was captured and executed. The U.S. backed
General Mobutu took over and ruled for decades. Only
armed insurrection topped his sorry ass.

So, you can see why I don't cut characters like Rosalyn
and Adama much slack. They're heading down that
same road in fiction, that caused my family pain in fact.
To me, they're not the only ones who can save
humanity. And, if they want to play hardball, Zarek shouldn't sit back in his cage and take it.

However, I understand that to some people in the U.S.,
violence against a government is compared to 911.
I accept that you hold this view. If this is where your
experiences have led you, so be it.

You have been lucky that your democracy was never
destroyed by those who arrogantly claimed that:
"the country will be ruined if this candidate wins
the election."

Our's was. Violence was used to supress Democracy.
Violence was used to bring it back.

Again, these are personal judgments based on
personal experience. I don't intend to change minds on
matters like these. I'm only telling you where I'm coming from.

[The Godfather]

Which I absoloutely respect.

But you're right, we come at this from different perspectives. I see political violence such as suicide bombings, the eradication of Embassys and wanton murder of innocent civilians just carrying on their daily duties in order to bring a paycheck home to their families as barbaric terrorism.

In concerns to Zarek- he admitted as much that he willing to see the other prisoners killed in order to further his political agenda which just did not strike me as altrustic but rather completely self-serving. His goal IMO was the furthering of his agenda to the detriment of anyone else. Their deaths were to be considered political collateral- all parts of a well designed plan where they were simply pawns for his own ambitions. I don't see how this could be considered a good man.

Even when his man was standing over Cally, a completely innocent soldier who we can safely assume was trying to force himself on her in a sexual manner(at least that is what I took from the scene) he made no effort to control things or speak to the inherent inhumanity of what was occuring. It made no difference to him aside from the fact that control was slipping away and THAT was the problem.

Now is Zarek charismatic? Absoloutely and he talks a good story but I honestly can't view him as anything besides someone attempting to take gross political advantage of the situation for his own means and not neccesarily for the betterment of society.

As for his assumed assasination of Roslyn- you're quite correct that there is no direct proof but there is the fact that Zarek plainly addressed the intended assasin as his "friend" and shortly thereafter the man was dead. And this in the wake of the shadow of doubt being placed over him. So no, direct evidence- no no but leading factors, sure- plenty.

As for Roslyn herself- she's hardly perfect and hardly completely altrustic but the show has made it clear that her goal is to find a way to lead the survivors to whatever promised land there might be. She's had to make difficult calls such as the destruction of the ship in 33 and the execution of the cylon in FLESH AND BLOOD but her intent truly to me doesn't seem to be simple gain and self-preservation- at least not on a personal level. As for politically...well let's just say she learns quickly.

Again, please understand that I absoloutely respect where you are coming from on this and I thank you for the conversation.

-Shawn