An unlikely claim

[ah-chie]

I've been involved for over 30 years in newspapers and all I can say is that most of the media in Canada is owned by *very* conservative (and in a lot of cases - Conservative) people.

And most Canadian reporters have a good reputation for being very professional in their approach, overall.

[Daliden]

The thing I didn't like about the Canadian report was that it got some facts wrong. Only six *scripts* have been ordered, not episodes . . .

[mjm800]

OK, we have a season two and now we have 20 episodes per season, so much for six episodes to wrap up the series.

Do we have a retraction from Sandy…an apology…anything? Yet those of us who doubted the validity of this post were chastised for dragging the good name of Sandy through the mud. I think that it is abundantly clear while Sandy has a wealth of knowledge and contacts within the TOS community, he is virtually shut out of TNS, and it's understandable, because who working for TNS would pass on information regarding the vitality of TNS to anyone who wants to see its demise. Not anyone who wants to keep their job!

However, at the end of season two I predict that we will see similar posts such as this one proclaiming the end of BSG because of inside information they have received from credible sources. One day I am sure that they will be correct because, it cannot last forever, however, this year they were wrong the information was bogus and the cannot even admit it.

That's just my two cents on the matter for better or worse.

[antelope]

Sandy never said the show would or would not be continued. Either did Koenigrules for that matter. They both are in the community and their SOURCE told them the things they reported. In both cases the SOURCE is supposedly an "insider". Sandy has nothing to apologize for nor did he even post this at this board. Asking Sandy to apologize is as crazy as asking Mustex to apologize for reposting the cylon alliance thread here.

In the future Sandy may question the value of this source. For all we know some may have questioned whether to renew the show. Those individuals may have been dismissed out of hand.

Sandy is a proven source of inside information but he is still a messenger not the message writer. Take all these in advance sources with a grain of salt and let's not continue to harrass the messenger. I have seen Koenigrules get the same treatment on other sites when his source doesn't get everything perfect too.

[mjm800]

antelope said:

Sandy never said the show would or would not be continued.

I must have misunderstood this then:

I personally hope Ron does get at least six more episodes to bring the series to some sort of stopping point.

Either did Koenigrules for that matter.

I was not talking about KR, KR more often than not is correct.

They both are in the community and their SOURCE told them the things they reported. In both cases the SOURCE is supposedly an "insider". Sandy as nothing to apologize for nor did he even post this at this board. Asking Sandy to apologize is as crazy as asking Mustex to apologize for reposting the cylon alliance thread here.

OK then we can all post anything that we want and say an insider told me so and we bear no responsibility for the validity of our post, don't shoot the messenger is such a lame excuse. If you are going to post something you better be able to back it up or at least recant your statement when it proves false, or your future credibility will be forever in question. At least that is how it works for me.

I have seen Koenigrules get the same treatment on other sites when his source doesn't get everything perfect too.

I have see that as well, and I have also seen him admit that he was wrong.

All I am saying is that people should be held accountable for their actions, it is far too easy to just post anything and say…well that is what I heard and to simply allow it to go unchallenged when not a shred of creditable or verifiable evidence is given well that is a shame.

People like Sandy prop themselves up as insiders and they should be they first to report that the information turned out to be bogus in order to preserve their insider status among their readers. Not that it matters I am sure, but I will no longer believe anything reported by Sandy.

[antelope]

Sandy's statement that he "hoped" the show got six more episodes did not say the show would or would not get cancelled, renewed, or name an episode count. Sandy's post said that according to his source things were not determined and it was not guaranteed.

You can say what you want but you are simply implying that Sandy lied. If he is a liar he would have something to apologize for to the members of the cylon alliance where this was posted. Everyone that seems to actually know Sandy seems to think he is a good guy and doesn't lie.

I think Sandy's source was wrong and was too low on the food chain but neither of us knows who that source was and the source may in fact have been right about what he said because nothing he actually said directly contradicts anything that actually happened.

Sandy doesn't owe you, me, or anyone else an apology. If anything the people that owe an apology are the ones that savaged his character, knowing nothing about him or his history in the fan base.

You or anyone else can and does post whatever they want. Some people do claim to have inside sources for what they say. I take these statements from anyone with a grain of salt but when established members of the Battlestar world with proven contacts over time post, like Sandy and Koenigrules I tend to give them a bit more credit than the general population.

Sandy has had personal contact with many people involved in Battlestar both TOS and TNS to include Ron Moore and Richard Hatch.

I don't want to beat a dead horse but the same attacks I see on Sandy could have been written by purist on some of the more purist sites on people well respected here. They are two sides of the same coin.

[Harvester]

Well said on both posts Antelope!

Sandy's post was just a statement that the decision had not been made at the time and that some in the heirarchy had expressed some concern. The series has since been renewed but nothing has been revealed that would suggest that there was any deception on Sandy's part.

TBC owes neither a retraction or an apology to anyone, certainly not on a board where he did not originally post his information.


I hope TBC doesn't mind me speaking in his defense.

[mjm800]

You guys can split hairs anyway you like and you can continue to be spoon feed propaganda at the alter of Sandy. I have known of Sandy for a longtime and have even had a few exchanges with him. I can only conclude by his postings that he has a deep dislike for the new series, he will only post information that is unfavorable to TNS even if it appears questionable and ultimately fails to become reality.

I understand that I am in the minority; however, I am yet in anyway to be impressed with Sandy's ability to predict what is happening with TNS, TOS, sure, but TNS, not by a long shot.

His post when I read it leaves me with only one conclusion: Sandy believes that too many TOS fans are watching; therefore, he claims that TOS fans comprise the swing vote (whatever that means), and if TNS dies the continuation still has a chance. He wants TNS to fail that much is clear, and all the passive aggressive tactics in the world cannot hide that fact.

However, I will not sway you because you all feel that no one should be held accountable or taken to task for prematurely posting information without verification and Sandy is infallible. Sci-Fi's two most popular shows are being beaten by BSG in the ratings, yet I hear nothing on the SG-1 boards about unhappy Universal Executives, no of course not because they are quite pleased with the progress of both shows this season. No, rather it is only BSG that they are unhappy with because as Sandy states

The new shows initial ratings don't amount to much as they were based largely on very aggressive marketing (well beyond Skiffy's normal efforts) and name recognition from the original series. The execs are waiting to see where the show settles ratings-wise. So far, they haven't been impressed. That's partly because of the new series itself and partly because their expectations were very inflated. Whether due to his promises or their own dreams, Skiffy execs expected performance out of Ron's show that I think was probably a little bit unrealistic.

Yes, it is unrealistic that every week BSG brings in the highest ratings ever for any show on Sci-fi…whatever. Keep the blinders on folks. In the end what side will Sandy be on when the show is canceled, those who rejoice, or those who mourn?

[koenigrules]

Let's not talk about cancellation yet!
As far as I know, Sci-Fi is VERY pleased with the performance of the show.
It is EXCEEDING their expectations.
As I mentioned on lvrocks last night, Sci-Fi thought the Stargates would do better and that if BSG could pull off comparable ratings, that would be fantastic.
It is doing even better than anyone dreamed of!!!
In the words of one Sci-Fi source, "it is an unqualified hit."
And it has performed exceptionally well since the first week it aired.
Regardless of sources as well as who is right or wrong, the fact remains BSG is succeeding- not failing.
And for that TNS fans should rejoice, be happy and celebrate.
This thread should really be entitled Just the Facts Please! ;D
KR

[ViperPilotMomma]

Rock on, KR! ;D

[Blade Runner]

Yeah go for it girl

[Ziptie]

antelope said:

Sandy's statement that he "hoped" the show got six more episodes did not say the show would or would not get cancelled, renewed, or name an episode count.

Indeed not. What it did do was make clear Sandy's personal wish that the show got around six episodes to come to a "stopping point", and then got the hell out of Dodge, leaving the floor clear for White Knight DeSanto to ride in on his charger. This opinion colours everything else he writes and as such renders a post entitled "Rumor Control" more than a little suspect.

The new shows initial ratings don't amount to much as they were based largely on very aggressive marketing (well beyond Skiffy's normal efforts) and name recognition from the original series. The execs are waiting to see where the show settles ratings-wise. So far, they haven't been impressed.

That comment doesn't even satisfy its own internal logic. If the execs "haven't been impressed" with the ratings and were waiting to see how the show "settles", why would they have greenlit a 13 (or more) episode second season at a point in time when the ratings were hovering at broadly the same level as the premiere?

Sandy's post said that according to his source things were not determined and it was not guaranteed.

Subsequent events have suggested that, at the time this info was posted, a pick-up was already a fait-accompli, with questions centering more on who would get first-run, number of episodes, budgets, talent availability and other procedural factors.

If he is a liar he would have something to apologize for to the members of the cylon alliance where this was posted.

Indeed he would, but that's an issue for him, his conscience, and the folk over at cylon.org.

Everyone that seems to actually know Sandy seems to think he is a good guy and doesn't lie.

Rose-tinted specs again. I didn't know anything about him prior to this post. My initial reaction was that he was talking from where the sun don't shine, and I'm afraid that remains my opinion. The comments attributed to the source simply don't appear credible.

Now I know Sandy didn't post these comments here himself, and thus some may feel it unfair to harangue him on this forum, but, for better or worse, this is a place for discussion, Mustex was perfectly within his rights to start the thread, the man himself has nobly turned up here, so here we are.

I think Sandy's source was wrong

Maybe, but it was up to Sandy to judge the veracity of this source before posting, and also for him to judge the likely reaction and consequences if this information proved to be duff, and qualify it as and where necessary.

The way I read it, the "qualification" at the bottom of the page was intended to apply to his comments on DeSanto's supposed plans rather than the entire post. However, if it is meant to apply to the whole thing, the assertion that the rumors "fit the few facts" Sandy is aware of, only serves to further discredit the author and his "facts".

Sandy doesn't owe you, me, or anyone else an apology.

Not here, this is true.

If anything the people that owe an apology are the ones that savaged his character, knowing nothing about him or his history in the fan base.

Sorry, that doesn't wash. The guy could be Jesus for all I care. If he spouts bollokcs, it's fair comment to say so, no matter what his position in the universe.

when established members of the Battlestar world with proven contacts over time post, like Sandy and Koenigrules I tend to give them a bit more credit than the general population.

That's entirely your option. It's not one we all have to follow.

I'll stick with my original opinion. Sandy's comments came across as the words of a biased, blinkered fantasist.

Subsequent events have only reinforced that opinion. Ultimately it may have been less hassle for all concerned if Mustex hadn't started the thread here, but as it's a valid subject and on-topic he has no reason to feel like he's done anything wrong.

I'm sure Sandy's a pillar of the community, I'm sure he's a jolly good egg, and I'm sure he's done the BSG fanbase huge favours in the past etc, etc. etc. However, to view this particular epistle through the rose-tinted glasses of previous goodwill is being a little more charitable than is possibly good for the man himself.

If he wasn't deliberately lying in an attempt to soothe the die-hard continuationists over at cylon.org, it appears that either the source was telling Sandy what he wanted to hear, or that Sandy was only hearing what he wanted to.

Maybe when one has been banging one's head against a brick wall for so long, the resultant headache makes it difficult to maintain a sense of true objectivity. Either way, it's good to see that the man himself is big enough to take on board the opinions that have been expressed here and elsewhere. One hopes that this proves to be a learning experience for everyone involved.

[Xenu]

Indeed not. What it did do was make clear Sandy's personal wish that the show got around six episodes to come to a "stopping point", and then got the hell out of Dodge, leaving the floor clear for White Knight DeSanto to ride in on his charger. This opinion colours everything else he writes and as such renders a post entitled "Rumor Control" more than a little suspect.

For what its worth, Sandy I do not think is a bad person nor one to wittingly spread blatant misinformation.

That having been said, Ziptie's comments I quoted do have a degree of truth to them; I have discussed this very point with Sandy, and although I think he's an intelligent guy, its clear to me that, at least where this subject is concerned, without trying to disparage him , I think he has a case of Old White Man's Syndrome; this is when someone is so used to being set in their ways that, despite any evidence to the contrary, they only see & hear what they want to about something or another.

The reason I say this (and this is nothing I haven't said to Sandy) is apparent in his post; he still believes in his heart that the best thing for BSG would be for the new show to fail, because he believes that will pave the way for a continuation. He claims that unnamed sources have indicated to him that, if the new show failed, "people" might look further into producing a continuation, despite the fact that this scenario would....and I say this with the utmost conviction...never, ever happen in this business.
I've been a professional in this industry since 1995, but you don't have to be that to know that nobody is going to sink money into a franchise that has just flopped in any form. Yet, Sandy still believes this, just as he seems to believe the equally implausible scenarios in the post in question.

So the only conclusion I've been able to come to is that Sandy does indeed know some people in the industry, but he has very little understanding of how this industry actually works. And, since his sources, like him, are obviously fans of the old show themselves, their wishful thinking gets transfered to him, intentionally or not, and therefore that wishful thinking gets reported as scoops by him. I can find no other reason for any informed person to harbor some of the beliefs & entertain some of the notions that he does.

Just like any insider contacts, some info turns out to be true, some does not, but I don't think I'm disparaging Sandy by saying that his reports can sometimes be construed as being filtered through rose colored glasses...after all, he is a fan, not a journalist, and he doesn't claim to be the final word. I would, however advise folks to take these things into account when ascertaining the validity of reports like this, and that's nothing personal against him.

[antelope]

Sandy has a source that he says is not at SCIFI channel that is telling him the show was renewed for 22 not 20 episodes. He said to take it for what it's worth.

I guess that must be part of his master plan to let TNS fans down when the 20 episode announcement comes out.

[Ziptie]

Either that or it just means he's full of Shatner and doesn't know when to wind his neck in.